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Subject: (Interview). Subtitle: Edmund Hillary. Timecode In: 00:00:04. Timecode out: 00:44:40. Notes: Mt. Everest; Mountaineering; Ernest Shackleton. Equipment Notes: Stereo=1; Dual-Channel Mono. NPR/NGS RADIO EXPEDITIONS Alex interview with Sir Edmund Hillary for Geographic Century piece 11-16-98 AC Identify yourself for the record. Sir Edmund Hillary [EH] I am Ed Hillary and I¿m probably best known for having climbed Mt. Everest. AC :29 Do you think of yourself as Ed or Sir Edmund which is the way the rest of the world addresses you? EH :34 Oh I definitely think of myself as Ed and in my home country of New Zealand I¿d always be called Ed or on rare occasions, Sir Ed. (laughter). AC :50 Sir Ed sounds kind of funny somehow. (still laughing). You may know that NPR and NGS...(he goes on to talk about Geographic Century and what kind of questions he¿s going to be asking)... Let¿s start of with Shackleton¿s voyage, I heard you say earlier today that he¿s, you were asked who were your heroes, and he¿s the first person you mentioned. EH 1:46 Well I think Shackleton was unquestionably, I read all the books about him, and he unquestionably epitomized really what I felt as a young person, was a real explorer. He lived in the era where there was Amundsen, and Cpt Robert Falcon Scott, and Shackleton. And they each had their particular abilities. Amundsen, of course, was a tremendous traveler, particularly with dogs and skies and you know, raced to the South Pole. I think Cpt Scott, who¿s not really an expert traveler in that sense, but he did lead extremely good scientific expeditions. 2:42 On the other hand, Shackleton was a great handler of men. And if his party got into difficulties and dangers, they looked to him and he always brought them out to safety. I can¿t think of anyone who was better at leading his party through great difficulties and dangers and achieving success at the end of it. So I admired him enormously. AC 3:18 But in your reading of his exploits, what kind of leader was he? The stern commander or was he the friendly counselor, I mean what was it about him that allowed him to inspire confidence in his men? EH 3:34 Well they did call him the boss, so obviously he did have a certain percentage of the firm leadership qualities. But just by reading about him, he was definitely a very sympathetic figure. I remember talking to an architect in New Zealand who had been down in the Antarctic with Scott and Shackleton and there was one man on board who was really a trouble maker and Scott wanted to return him on ship back home to get him out of his hair really. So because Scott was a navy man he found it really difficult to deal with this man who wasn¿t navy personnel. 4:28 And my friend Reggie Ford said he was present in the cabin when Scott and Shackleton and this man were there. And Shackleton who was a navy officer, he said ¿excuse me sir will you let me deal with this man?¿. And Scott was very happy to withdraw. So, Shackleton said to this chap, ¿are you going on the return ship?¿ and the man said ¿no I¿m not¿. So Shackleton knocked him down and he got up again and said ¿I¿m not going on the return ship¿. So Shackleton knocked him down again. And on the third occasion he agreed he was going back on the return ship. And so he got out of Scott¿s hair in that way. 5:28 Although I suppose, it was an era of some violence, particularly perhaps in the merchant navy, but Shackleton really knew how to handle it. But it was something that was very difficult for a former naval officer to deal with. I sort of liked Shackleton in that way. He really knew how to handle men. It didn¿t matter if they were service men or just an ordinary man on the street, he was very good at dealing with them. AC 6:06 You know, hearing about these heroic exploits years later, we always think, ¿God everyone¿... (Notes truncated)