ML161014
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Media notes
Subject 1: (Interview). Subtitle: Jack Stanford, Elizabeth Arnold. Timecode In: 00:00:46. Timecode out: 00:46:21. Notes: Conservation discussion. Includes comments by "Nick.". Subject 2: (Sound Effects). Subtitle: Fly fishing sounds. Timecode In: 01:08:36. Timecode out: 01:13:32. Notes: Casting and reeling in. Subject 3: Steller's Sea-Eagle (Haliaeetus pelagicus). Timecode In: 01:14:41. Timecode out: 01:14:48. Behaviors: flight sound. Subject 4: bird sp. (Aves sp.). Timecode In: 01:46:35. Timecode out: 01:47:13. Notes: Possible Woodpecker species. Equipment Notes: Decoded MS stereo. Show: Kamchatka Log of DAT #: 3 Engineer: Michael Schweppe Date: Sept. 29 & 30, 2002 0.0 MS Tape number three it's MS continuing. The interview Jack on the left, and Elizabeth in the center and Nick on the right. Talking in the background 0.54 Jack Would you invest in something that got less that 1/10th of 1 percent return on your investment? That's what hatcheries do. They can't find more than about, on the average, some are better some are worse, but about 1/10th of 1 percent of the fish they produce are ever seen again. So that means that fish that coming back are worth more than gold bouillon would be. It's amazing to me. 1.26 EA Isn't it a societal thing that we want to believe that we can just replace the things that we destroyed. It's sort of like, we were talking about reintroduction this morning. 1.37 Jack We got trapped by the dogma that habitat could be replaced by hatcheries by zoos and so on, and that dogma has persisted for a long time to Nick ____ said it best: We're trying to have salmon without rivers. 2.00 Nick One of the odd turns that needs to be noted about that is that the agencies that are most defensive and supportive of their hatcheries although they're transforming them now to serve a more conservation purpose which is another topic about which much skepticism is could legitimately be offered. They defend their history and their current activity with hatcheries on the grounds that they had no control over the habitat, that of course if we had habitat we might have fish and we wouldn't need hatcheries, yet most of those state fish and wildlife agencies certainly Washington and Oregon had statutory power for habitat control that they never exercised because they believed exactly what got them into this bind is that they could substitute. And that's the choice that they actively pursued. 3.01 Jack The other funny twist on that is that hatchery fish are easy to kill. The ones that come back, you can sacrifice them Anglers can take them home and eat them and so on. Yet, these fish, adapted and radiated through the Pleistocene through the ice age. And so it doesn't surprise us to understand their life history plasticity, their flexibility and keen ability to adapt to see them doing well in some pretty awful places. They spawn for example in one of the major agricultural drainages in the Yakima. So, the point is this, it does take very much to get the habitat back together for salmonids. In fact, you might not want to drink the water, but the fish are probably going to do pretty good in it. If you give them what we call normative conditions, the conditions in which they can sustain a population and grow it, and it doesn't take pristine or historic or natural conditions to do that. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to raise them in a hatchery. The point is that we can have a lot more fish in the river, but the first thing to do is to not kill the ones that are reproducing to start with. Let some escapement occur. A lot of escapement. You can't kill them until the river is full of fish really if you want to sustain them. 4.44 EA What's your hope for this project, your long term hope for this project? 4.49 Jack Well, my long term hope is that it will do as Guido and Pete envisioned, that it will, th... (Notes truncated)
Additional species
- Steller's Sea-Eagle Haliaeetus pelagicus
- bird sp. Aves sp.
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Archival information
- Cataloged
- 22 Feb 2010 - David McCartt
- Digitized
- 22 Feb 2010 - David McCartt
- Edited
- 22 Feb 2010 - David McCartt