ML 163452


Sound Effects 3:10 - 22:45 Play 3:10 - More
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Siem Reab ambiance  







Includes rooster and bird sounds.  

Interview 47:51 - 58:22 Play 47:51 - More
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Zeb Hogan, Michael Sullivan  







Fish discussions.  

Sound Effects 1:29:02 - 1:40:15 Play 1:29:02 - More
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Boat trip sounds  








Interview 1:44:27 - 1:59:29 Play 1:44:27 - More
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Zeb Hogan, Unidentified fisherman  







Fish discussion, translated, with additional comments by Michael Sullivan.  

NPR/NGS Radio Expeditions
13 Nov 2005

  • Cambodia
  • Siem Reab
  • 13.3609559   103.8597679
  • Stereo
    Sampling Rate
  • 48kHz
    Bit Depth
  • 16-bit
  • Sennheiser MKH 30
  • Sennheiser MKH 50
  • Sennheiser MKH 20
    Equipment Note
  • Decoded MS stereo, Subjecct 1. All other Subjects recorded with 2X Sennheiser MKH 20.

DAT #8
Angkor Wat & TSLAKE with fisherman

128 -ambi at hotel in Seim Reap

1036 good rooster

2240 ambi ends

2313 in car to Angkor wat

2346 getting out of car at awat walking around there
2502 car horns

2813 SPACED OMNIS generic ambi from awat from top of temple -people talking -but in general very quite

3117 people talking in another lang (not sure if Khmer)

3252 ambi at a shrine -very quite some talking -

4104 diff ambi at awat -people talking

4739 good swans

4756 z -I am looking to see if I recognize any of the species of fish that are here at byyon at awat and record some of everyday scenes on wall that you still see today¿.

M -looking at murals and boats and fish and men with nets

Z -this is great you can actually recognize the species of fish here on the wall so you can see there is a bump headed carp¿lists names of fish¿.2 mens with nets -cast nets like what we saw on ts and woman who is selling a fish and women who are smoking fish

M -and good news is all fish we see here we still see

Z -amazing

M -what about your fish? Any gmekong catfish>?

4901 z -one gc and reason we can tell it is a gcatfish bc it is eating a goat so prob not a Mekong gc but a related species called a dog eating catfish -this case eating dog not goat

M -4921 what tell us about river

4930 z -basically tells us that peoples lives -the lives are similar today as were back then

M -not a lot has changed in last 800 yrs

Z -not in terms of fishing activity dependence on fish -species of fish that we see - obviously very impt back then and still imp now

M -nothing has changed in the last 900 yrs 4957

Walking around AWatt

5347 ms that must be the dogeating catfish

Z -yup there it it u can tell bc it doesn't have scales whoever carved it close attn to detail -some w scales and some with none¿.5413 oh that is a meter long fish so about 9 10 feet abiut size we see today¿¿

5437 ms -we have walked abot 200 yards here and turned a couple of corners and we have come up to what looks to be a giant dog eating catfish

Z -here we have the dog eating catfish you can tell it is a catf bc doesn't have scales. You can see it the carps here have scales this partic fish very large looks olike eating a goat or a deer

M -if goat 30 or 30 lbs hw big catfish?

Z = well it is a good size catfish recon it is about 8 9 feet long maybe 500 lbs

M -500 lbs

Z -almost the same size as I saw in diff species but sim size/ this fish here, the dog eating catfish is alos extremely rare now in fact you don't see it in the tsl now (we prove this wrong later when we are in the boat) you just see it in the Mekong

M -so this could be cham vs khmer here


M -is the gcat fish just as rare or as rare as the Mekong catfish?

Z -not sure 5606 it hasn't beenlisted as crit endag bc no info about it the prob w/a lot of these but bc nobody has any info about it we cant list as crit endg bc to list a species as crit end u have to know what is going on w/populations
M -This is what you are doing here -trying to estab baseline

Z -yeah so species like this - this is perf ex of that. We just don't know what is happening with pop of these large fish. So I am going up and down talking with people trying to gather info about fish like this trying to figure out if they are endangered -so we can determine whether or not they are endang what is happen with pops. In this instance. I have been up and down Mekong in Thailand and laos talk w/people and they say 10 or 20 yrs ago fish was fairly common -sevvillages say last 5 yrs haven't seen a single fish for me sets off alarm bells but so hard to scientifically document the decline of these fish. It is v diff.

M -bc could be environ, could be lack of fish, overfishing, dams or all of above

5724 z -right but I am not even talking about why. I am talking about documenting the fact that they have declined bc it is¿.just counting thenm is incred diff. it is not enough for me to say yes this fish is crit endan the pop of these fish have crashed bc I can't prove it bc until I can prove as a scientist ican't say anything

M -you can't prove it now but you have your suspicions

Z -yes¿that this fish is (laughter) on the verge of extinction¿bc of overfishing, bc of dam bdg bc of clearing of flooded forests, habitat degredations 5809

M -but habitat degred isn't pollution it is just -deforestation things like that

Z -it tends to be clearing of flooded forest, dredging, rapids blasting, port construction 5830

5940 -10200 ambi in area -spaced omni ambi for intvw

10323 ambi walking to another place

10432 some drumming

10600 sweeping

11407 tour in Japanese

11854 walking up something steep ?

12557 girl singing ¿dream about you¿ THIS SUCKS


12823 at the boat MKH20s spaced omnis

12858 Getting on boat -12917 water sounds off boat boat motor

Lots of talking getting on boat 13013

13017 getting on boat

Walking on boat talk in khmer

13056 inside boat

13128 boat motor going

13141 boat motor

13216 rev of engine


13259 louder boat

Diff boat motor tones

13656 good waves against boat

Split track and spaced omnis 14039

14045 good khmer talk in bg -approaching fishing boat

14114 zeb diving in to talk to fisherman

Setting up intvw -talking in khmer 14203

14207 a dive into the water

14229 motor idle talking in khmer

14317 nice water sounds

14346 z -how is fishing now

TRANSL by Poua

14436 z -interested in fish in lake -how is the fishing

He can not fishing too much -just a little bit

Z -can't catch many fish (yes) so this small basket that he has of fish how long to catch small basket

14520 -he spent one day to catch this kind of fish but incuding with some fish on the boat

Z -underneath ¿ooh! (ms -got the big ones in there) so how many kilos does he think he can catch in one day?

Around 1 kg

Z -1kg up until now? When did he start this morning?

600 in morning
Z -and now about 12 so about 6 hrs and so does he fish like this all yr or only during certain time

Fisherman -sometime according to the season

Z -so how many months does he fish like this

Fm -around 6 or 7months. He has not spent a whole of the yr he just spent 7 month for fishing like this

Z -how long is gill net?

Fm -around 300 meters

Z - 300 mtrs so around 1000 ft long so does he notice anything about the catch? Good or not so good? 14816

Fm oooh ¿khmer¿. (but good oooh)¿and then laughter ¿ not so good he says he just catch for himself and for hs family only

Z -and is catch same as before is it the same every year or more now or less now?

Fm -less then every year

Z -every yr less and less? Why?

Fm -he doesn't know the reason (cell phine ring) he wonder also bc not many there are not so many fisherman but the fish are small and they become decrease every yr

Z -but there are not so many fisherman so does he have any idea can he guess why?

14949 he doesn't know at all

Z -every catch a big fish like a gcatfish?

Fm -never caught

Z -what is biggest fish ever saw?

Fm -he saw gc long time ago

Z -how long

Fm -around 4 or 5 yrs ago

Z -someone caught in net like this?

Fm -he said the lot fishing

Z -caught in fishing lot. In tslake there are a lot of bamboo fences that mark off the fishing lots a lot of time when the water goes down a lot of times they catch the gcatfish

Fm -15213 in this period not yet have fishing lot by the bamboo fence¿maybe the water goes down 3 months more and they have long fences

Z -does he have any idea where best place to catch fish in Cambodia?

Fm - here is the best place

Z -but even here not so good now but this is the best place even though he thinks not so good now. Is it ok if I look to see what fish he caught?

15330 fm -it is ok

15414 Z -so there are about 10 small crockers and a young giant sheep fish and about 5 small carps and few mistis catfish -ooh wow look at that! One pengasas catfish related to the gc but this is a unusual ¿.does he know what kind of fish it is>?

Fm -prah fish

Z -you think> look how bug head is

Fm -he said it is prah fish but 2 kinds of prah fish this is a prak sha fish

Z -what is difference

Fm -this one looks short and fatter than normal prah fish

Z -yeah it is unusual -how much you think he has

Pou -maybe 4 kg

Z -so 7 or 8 ponds

15553 z -the thing you notice here is that he is using a small mesh gill net and so what that means is that he is really only going to catch the small fish so he has a lot of large species in his boat but they are all young fish -fish that are not going to be able to have a chance to grow and spawn and that is typical of when you see a lot of fishing -fishermen usually start with a very large mesh gill net and they can catch big fish and as the big fish disappear the mesh size that they use gets smaller and smaller until they are only catching small fish. So most of the fish in this boat even though they are only a few inches long the mx size these are fish that can get 40 or 50 lbs.

M -but the small the mesh of the net the worst news it is for the species

15648 Z -well the worst news it is for the fishery bc it means that the large fish are gone already. But what you see in the tsr is that they use a small mesh net in the river but that is to catch the trey real the small fish so that is not so bad but to use a small mesh net to catch these fish that can grow grow very large that is a bad sign

M -but for them no alternative

Z -yeah. So ideally they would let these fish grown large. They would not fish these species when they are so small and let them grow a little bit in the lake and then when they could harvest them when they were large and after they reproduced

M -does this worry you?

Z -yeah it is a little bit worrying. Obviously this is one explanation why were are not getting more big fish in the tsr 15733

M -how long been fishing here?

Fm -many years..around 4???

Z -and before what did he do?

Fm -he was a farmer before his name is roy. He is 37 yrs old

Z -I don't want to confuse things but that looked like a dog eating catfish (this can't be used -talking over)

15959 boat starts again and khmer

BOAT DRIVERS SWITCH lots of khmer and boat

20128 end of DAT

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