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Vince Dahara(?), Christopher Joyce  

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Sustainable fishing discussion.  

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Unidentfied fishermen, Christopher Joyce  

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Fish discussion.  

Interview 26:37 - 29:50 Play 26:37 - More
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Tupisto Saringa, Christopher Joyce  

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Fish collection discussion with English translation.  

Interview 29:50 - 33:52 Play 29:50 - More
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Lino Alvarez, Christopher Joyce  

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Fish collection discussion.  

Interview 33:52 - 37:57 Play 33:52 - More
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Mon Romero, Christopher Joyce  

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Marine Aquarium Council certification discussion.  

Interview 52:02 - 1:00:52 Play 52:02 - More
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Fred Durayas, Christopher Joyce  

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Diving discussion.  

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Diving air compressor sounds  

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NPR/NGS Radio Expeditions
25 Feb 2004

    Geography
  • Philippines
    Bohol
    Locality
  • Island of Honduman
    Latitude/Longitude
  • 9.86802   124.178
    Channels
  • Stereo
    Sampling Rate
  • 48kHz
    Bit Depth
  • 16-bit
    Recorders
  • SONY TCD-D8
    Microphones
  • Sennheiser MKH 30
  • Sennheiser MKH 40
    Accessories
    Equipment Note
  • Decoded MS stereo

NPR/NGS
RADIO EXPEDITIONS
Show: Radio Expeditions
Log of DAT #: 14
Engineer: Marty Kurcias
Date: February 2004

NPR/NGS RADIO EXPEDITIONS
HONG KONG/Phillipines trip
Reporter: Chris Joyce
Engineer: Marty Kurcias

DAT 14 ¿ M/S PAIR

0:22-6:09Ambi- Boat running through water (?)

5:59-Man calls out, conversation it Phillipino

6:09 Boat is revving

7:18 ? They're done fishing so the Hoka people are over there. CJ-Hoka people? ?-They are 10 minutes from there. They thought you wanted to see some of the catch and talk to them if you want. CJ-So we can walk up there and talk to them? ?-Yes, yes, yes

7:55 Sounds like plastic wrapping, conversation in Fillipino.

9:17 ?-Vince, you know that they are from NPR Radio, right? You know that they are coming? Ya, ya. What you didn't know is they're bigger. (Laughing). Fillipino.

9:52 Cell phone rings. Hello (conversation in Fillipino).

10:40 V-Turn off all the cell phones. Marty-(laughing) turn off all the cell phones, we're in the middle of the ocean. CJ-This always happens, always, always.

10:59 V-Saringa, he's the Barungai of the group leaders in Barungai site here. CJ-First say your name and what you do. V-I'm Vince Dahara(?) and I work as the supply development manager for MAC, Phillipines. CJ-What does a supply development manager do? V-Supply development manager will help in the development of the, ensuring the supply of the tropical fish from the collection site, ensuring that there's a continuous sustainable supply of the tropical fish caught from proper way, or the sustainable way, caught from the collectors to the certified exporter.

12:07 CJ-And what is a sustainable way? And this is a place you are trying to get, soon, Mack certification, so what do they have to do to get MAC certification?

12:19 V-Currently we are trying to convince people, because, as you know, Phillipines is one of the identified countries where there's ample use of cyanide and other means of illegal fish. So one of our strategy is to convince our people to adapt a different way of fishing, using the barrier nets and without cyanide. So clean fish, quality fish. So, that's basically the work we are doing here. CJ-And what is this place here, can you describe it since we don't have video, just sound. Tell us what is it made of and what is it for.

13:10 V-This is what we call the plotting gates, where normally the cuts, or the fishes, the pieces collected by the fishers are stacked before shipment. This is the place where they screen the fish or sort the fish and select those ideal for shipment and those fish that are not suitable for shipment are release back to the sea. CJ-And what makes a fish unsuitable? V- Well, some exporter has preferences on the fish they want to buy, like they want in terms of sizes and they prepare those fish that don't have scars or physical damage. CJ-And so, what you're doing here is teaching them sustainable ways using nets instead of cyanide. Now what kind of nets, one kind or are there many?

14:22 V-The trainer can explain that better, here is one of the trainer and his name is Edgar Pisoie. CJ-In ? or English? V-He can speak English. CJ-What are you holding up here? E-This is the kind of net that we are going to use that the collectors are using. Barrier. CJ-Barrier net. And it's a fine fish net with floats. V, E-Floaters then sinkers. E-This kind of net is only for ??. CJ-And tell me how you use it. Do you throw it or do you go down with it? E-You pull the net like this way. CJ-You spread it out? E-It's form the letter C and then you scare the fish towards the net. CJ-You scare the fish towards the net. E-And then you pull the little jars. CJ-You scoop it and put it in a little hand net and then you put it in a jar? E-Ya, like this. CJ-Do you put one fish in each jar or many fish? E-One fish. CJ-Why not many fish? E-There are kind of fishes that¿CJ-Fight. E-Fight (laughs), so it's possible they will not take it. CJ-How many fish would you catch normally in a day using the net? E-Well, it depends on the order because we have actually 15 collectors, free dive, and suppose there are 50 long fishes, it should be divided among the collectors. So to assist getting their fish. CJ-But say you, one fisher gets one fish in a day, a good fisher.

16:43 E-A good fisher I think he can get an average of 200 or 150 a day, not the whole day, but it's only 2-3 hours after that. CJ-Would they get too cold? E-Maybe, especially at this time. V-Especially this time of year it's cold. CJ-For you, not for me. E-So they just dive within one hour and you have. CJ-And do you get, compared to cyanide, using this method, which way do you get more fish? E-This is more easily to get more fish this way. CJ-With the net. E-Yes, since we get some we call it skullfaces, it could easily get in one, in one dive you can get 5 fishes, and with cyanide you can get one. CJ-But you have to teach people how use this net, is this is a new thing to use a net. E-No, this is their first time using this net before they did not use a net before. CJ-What did they use before?

18:11 E-Actually they are using close net so this Barrier net is ?? easy to get the fishes.

18:45-20:18 Ambi of place of interview. Water splashes, rooster crow in background.

20:26 CJ-So you're going to bring up some of these fishes that are kept in these nets underneath the raft. E-This is the red-tailed file fish. CJ-Red-tailed file fish. It has a red tail and black in front. And how much would that sell for, how much can you get for that one? E-The amount? CJ-The amount of money. E-Four or five pesos. CJ-Five pesos, and you keep it in this jar with holes in it to keep water going through? Why the holes here? E-The water should be circulate. CJ-What's this one? E-Fleecy Butterfly. CJ-Butterfly? E-Ya, Fleecy. CJ-And how much is that one worth? E-Four pesos. CJ-Four pesos.

21:59 CJ-Oh, that's beautiful. E and V-Vagabondose Butterfly. CJ-Bullnose? E-Ya, Vagabondose. CJ-So you must have 30 or 40 jars in there today. V-Collectors they require 200 jars. CJ-What do you mean they require? E-And that one is Lion Fish. CJ-Lion Fish, that is fantastic, and he has spines, poisonous? E-Ya. CJ-So how do you catch 'em? E-?? CJ-Carefully? (laughs).

22:53 Ambi of fishermen pulling fish up.

23:04 Saying what fish they are pulling up. E-Or spotted grill, there are different names of same species. Clown fish. Greneras. CJ-Grass? E-Ya.

24:36 Brings up another fish so Chris can take a picture.

25:09 CJ-And that's a butterfly fish? Is it? E-Maybe that's a ?? head, brown ?? CJ-And it's brown, with white stripes, sort of disk shape. E-Clown fish. CJ-Clown fish, pinkish on the top with yellow on the bottom. He seems a little more active than the others. With a white stripe down his cheek. Okay, thank you. Nice place to work. Is this good work, you enjoy doing this work? Is this a good way to make a living? E-Ya. V-Maybe you want to interview a collector? CJ-Ya. E-He's the local collector. CJ-Okay.

They set up a translator.

26:44 E-Filipino. C-Filipino, E-I am Tupisto Saringa, I am the Barunga official coordinating collectors and I also do the collecting and I am 45 years old and married. CJ-Oh married, how many children? E-Nine, he has nine children. CJ-Nine? Whew! Takes a lot of work. Marty-He must be catching a lot of fish (laughs). CJ-So you have to catch a lot of fish because of that?

27:58 E-Filipino, I really have to get a lot of fish so I can feed my family. CJ-How long have you been fishing? E-Fili, I have been fishing for the past 30 yrs. This type of fishing for the aquarium it's only about a year ago. CJ-Only about a year. Before that it was fishing for food? E-It was fishing for food, yes. CJ-And is it better to fish for aquarium fish, is it easier, do you make more money?

29:14 E-So, this tropical aquarium fish has helped them first it has raised their awareness that there is another method to cyanide fishing, so compared to the usual fishing for food fish, that he has done, he has noted that it is better, it gives him more income, to use this technique or method to fish for aquarium.

29:51 CJ-And let me ask Lino or you, for him, is the idea that MAC is trying to get across here is that the exporters will pay more for the fish he catches for these methods than using other methods. E-Okay, I think that's one of the come-ons that we tell them when we operate in an area is that there is a short market, steady demand, good price for the fish that will become MAC certified. And that has been the best motivating factor, although I think he also mentioned he was grateful for the MAC program because it has brought down the use of illegal fishing in areas here, like cyanide, even dynamite b/c in this place there is nothing to do, you either use illegal methods like dynamite, right?

30:50 CJ-For aquarium fish? L-No, no, for food fish. He's been in MAC ?? for one year and I noted some disconnect b/c these guys were not using cyanide before but they were using other methods. They're to ?? MAC is working in, there was a place where the locals were using cyanide for so long, I mean we're not fishing for volume before, but there are people coming in from the outside and using cyanide. So we empowered them by telling them they can make money by driving away the poachers and actually doing the fishing themselves using the nets that they are ?? fishing. So this is the area where the journey of the ornamental fish begins from the reef to the aquarium tanks of the ?? This is where, exactly where you are.

31:49 CJ-And this is where you can get a fish for five pesos, which is 10 cents. L-Pesos, where as before, the price was one peso, two pesos at the most, with Mack they're getting that. You may think that they don't match, for these people that's good enough, and more than what they're asking for. But of course, we've more awareness about certified fish and the value of certified fish we hope that the players down in the chain of custody. The other members of the links of the chain of custody like the exporters and importers will be able to reward them for their enterprise, more.

32:36-33:00 Ambi of boat motor.

33:14 CJ-So you established this chain of custody so that the idea is that you know where the fish came from and where it went all the way through. L-And hopefully by est. the chain we hope the end users will find it in their heart to reward the collection ppl in the collectors to reward them for what they are doing.

33:44 CJ-What is it that you do? L-I'm Lino Alvarez, I'm the Phillipines director for Marine Aquarium Council.

M-I'm Mon Romero, from WWF, World Wildlife Fund, Phillipines. CJ-And I wanted to ask you about something you mentioned before. The whole certification idea, where did it begin? M-Well about 1998 there was a meeting in Washington and we were invited to that meeting. This was called by WWF-USA, and this idea with coming up with a set of standards for certification about finding fish was thought up. CJ-By whom, by you? M-No, it was by the WFUS, by Bruce Montaign there. We had come up with an agreement, there were a lot of stake holders from the Phillipines b/c the Phillipines was known to be the #1 supplier of aquarium fish from the Philliipines so I flew from the Phil to the US. At that time even the pres of tropical fish exporters assoc was invited and there were also several NGO's, specially from the Herringbone foundation from the Phillipines was also invited to discuss how we could go about this process. So this was called the Marine Aquarium Fish Council. And I think this was the beginning. This has grown into the Marine Aquarium Council.
35:32 Chris wants to describe this place

36:07 CJ-We're standing on a bamboo raft, like something out of a Tom Sawyer story, something Tom Sawyer would have imagined, a little bit bigger, and we're floating about a hundred and fifty yards off shore, there's a lot of, I think these are coconut palm floatations. Looking down there's a hole in the middle of the raft and there's this wonderfully sparkling clear greenish water and you can see 20 feet down to the bottom which is covered in lumps of coral and seaweed and sand, and hanging from the bamboo down to the central area are big black nets and in each net there are jars and jars and jars of the most magnificent tropical fish and even outside the nets you can look down and there are all kinds of tropical fish just swimming around the raft collected to the junk that's collected to the bottom of the raft. It seems like a pretty spectacular place to work, albeit the suns preety hot and it is hard to work under water, but you can't imagine a more beautiful site than to be collecting things as beautiful as these fish.

Marty corrects him.

37:25 CJ-The fish are attracted to the stuff that is stuck on the bottom of the raft. I mean you can look right underneath there and I can see half a dozen tropical fish, yellow tails, red bodies, tiny ones, anemones, gobi fish, it's remarkable at any time you can see dozens of fish underneath the raft. Too many to catch, I suppose.

38:22-40:55 Ambi of raft sounds. Water sloshing against raft. Rooster crow in background. Faint sound of motor becomes stronger (some boat coming near, passing by).

41:40-48:34 Ambi of boat starting up, motor running, pulling away.

49:07-51:00 Ambi, conversation in Filipino, boat motor in background for a little bit.

Marty sets up for Fred Durayas (sp)

52:03 CJ-Can you say what your name is and what you do?

F-Fred Durayas, one of the trainer for collecting aquarium pieces and at the same time seeing how ?? the Huka compressor in deep diving and also to safety.

CJ-Safety? Can you describe what a Huka is? B/c we're talking to ppl in America who've never seen a Huka. So what does a Huka do?

52:54 F-Huka is, totally not like the scuba diving, scuba diver, b/c the air from the compressor is continuously flowing unlike scuba diving. You need to sip the air. The compressor you just close your mouth with hose, with a long line of hose, just close your mouth and then the air is in to your stomache. CJ-Pushed into your lungs. And how long can you dive if you have Huka, before coming up? F-Mostly thirty minutes to an hour, but it is not too deep. CJ-How deep? F-35-40 feet, it's 30 minutes.
54:22 CJ-Why use a Huka, why is it better than free diving? F-B/c most expensive aquarium piece is you get to the part of the sea, unlike the shallow water. CJ-Give me an example, the most expensive piece. F-Not totally expensive, but more expensive than the fish from the shallow water. CJ-Grouper. F-Ya, groupers and angel fish. CJ-Angels. F-And gobis, but the gobis are very deep, that's why we do not promote to divers to get that kind of fish b/c it's very dangerous.

55:23 CJ-So you teach them safety. What are the things that they must remember to be safe? F-If you, once you dive to the 30-40 feet and then stay there for at least 30 minutes and then if you go to the surface, don't ascend very fast, just ascend very slowly. Just ascend do this bubble by mouth. The smallest bubble is still your head. CJ-So don't come up any faster than the bubble speed. How long have you been huka diving yourself? F-When I was 17. CJ-How old are you now? F-B/c I'm also aquarium collector before, but one of the NGO over in Manilla came from our place then they teach about the safety of that diving and then I commit to help them and to educate these ppl to protect our modern environment.

57:29 CJ-Are they free divers before? Or are they just learning huka now? F-Huka now and then I'm also licensed scuba diver. CJ-And so you can make more money if you huka dive than if you free dive? F-Ya, before. CJ-What about cyanide, do you use cyanide? F-ya, I use cyanide before. CJ-What was that like? Is it difficult? F-I'd have to say no, it's just difficult b/c before I didn't know what is the effect of the cyanide to the coral reefs, but when I know the effects I stopped the use of sodium cyanide.

58:19 CJ-When you use cyanide, how do you do it? F-Just we improvise the container of the motor oil. CJ-Or a water bottle? F-Water bottle, and then put the tablet of the sodium cyanide, put it in the bottle and then mix the water, the salt water, and then shake, then after the tablets of the salt, you simply screw it. CJ-You go, you dive down, and then you find the fish. F-You find the fish and then the fish is hide in the coral and then you squirt a small amount of cyanide. CJ-And then the fish just floats? F-Ya. CJ-And how to you keep the fish from dying? F-We bring the plastic container, the plastic bag, we put it in the plastic bag and then you always change the water in the bottom. Then after how many hours the fish will be back to normal. But ya, we don't know the fish is not staying good in the aquarium.

1:00:34 CJ-Could you say your name one more time for me? F-Fred Durayas ?? CJ-And how old are you? F-43 CJ-You like doing this? F-Ya CJ-Good living? F-Ya.

1:02:04 FX-Boat starting up

1:04:33-1:06:33 Boat finally started, runs motor (high gain ambi)

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