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Interview 6:15 - 20:00 Play 6:15 - More
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Sukanya Rajan, Kenji Otta  







General conversation; Sitar practice  

Interview 29:47 - 1:32:43 Play 29:47 - More
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Ravi Shankar, Sukanya Rajan  







Ravi Shankar's life; Ravi Shankar Institute for Music and Performing Arts; General Conversation  

NPR/NGS Radio Expeditions
7 Dec 2004

  • India
  • New Delhi; Chanakyapuri; Ravi Shankar Institute for Music and Performing Arts
  • 28.595   77.178
  • Stereo
    Sampling Rate
  • 48kHz
    Bit Depth
  • 16-bit
    Equipment Note
  • Split Track Stereo

Show: Ravi Shankar, Susan Stamberg
DAT #: 5
Engineer: William McQuay
Date: December 7, 2004

R = Ravi Shankar
SUK = Sukanya Rajan
K = Kenji Otta
S = Susan Stamberg
J = Jessica Goldstein

s- introductions

1:46 b- what a beautiful place.
Thank you.
Constructions are almost complete¿.

s- does he live here as well? This is his home.

2:35 isn't this nice? (Saws in the background) introductions to Joeti.

4:28 jess and bill looking around the place/set up

6:40 Suk- so bad at Hindi. Struggling with Bengali.

7:06 Introductions/exchange of gifts.

ravigi will be with us soon. Can I show you the place. Or should we wait?

830 scheduling

S-tell me when will he work with his students?
SUK-Whimsical! (laughter)
S-Whenever he wants (laughter)
SUK-Like last night I went to some order some blankets and stuff for the students. And I was talking to them and he just walked in and said can I join you and then he just started teaching them.

9:11 well is there a way we can get his whimsy going?

SUK-How are you finding India after 40 years?
S- Its wonderful after 40 years. People look healthier and in better shape.
SUK-As long as the American culture did not take up our culture.

SUK-To see this going on, no reviews of classical music. You know you should take the best from other countries ad hold on to ours.

1050 I hope that we can keep to our culture.
This is a place that the world looks up to
s- for the depth of our culture
s- for the richness of the culture.

SUK- we are the only culture that is living its culture
s- 1125 taking the tonka from the train station up to the Taj. You saw the India I remember. Its really important, not to romanticize it but to look and see if there are some improvements. And yet there they are able to hold, and that is the most commercial place of all with all the tourists.
I hope for India
SUK- I hope too.

but I am so happy to be here (Susan)

SUK- you see it is a place either you love it or you hate it.
s- I know that. When we lived here we used to tell people don't come unless you can spend a month here because it is overwhelming.

SUK-and come with an open mind
s- and look for the richness of it (phone rings)

Suk- I tell all the students who come here, have a break from this fast world. Don't worry about email and computers, this is not working just come here with looking for something else.
s- yeah.
Bill studied sitar at home. It's very rare.

B- (quietly describes generous teacher)

Suk- this one boy who has come from California- he's a drummer. He has come to learn from Ravi. for two months.
A Japanese boy as well. They should meet them.

(Susan arranges to meet them later mobile phone ringing)

this is the young man from Los Angeles. He has been learning for
m- three years
s- three years¿I am from NPR, and Bill, Jessica
will you talk with us for a few minutes?

m- he's catching a cold ?
is that the remedy for cold, boil the ginger?
SUK- and then add lemon and honey. Jesse is the one getting sick.

please say your name
Kenji Otta.
I am originally from Japan but I am living in Los Angeles for a long time.
s- and why did you come here, what are your doing? You are a student?
K- yes 1600
So I Ravimigi practicing, or helping him with his concert
s- do you play the sitar? So you are studying the sitar?
k- yes
s- and why are you interested in this? What got you interested in this?
k- 1614 I played guitar and in a rock and roll and all this stuff. Indian music has more meaning in the music and I wanted to learn more meaning of the music. (sweeping in the background rather overwhelming)

s- you feel there is more meaning? In this music. I don't understand what does that mean
1643 saga raga for the morning, evening afternoon, for some seasons, there has got to be something behind the music. And I wanted to learn something of the secrets of the sounds. (whispers energetically)

1706:S- the secrets of the sounds, yeah because it is related to nature it comes from nature.
Not just bam bam like rock and roll.

k- very difficult. Yeah. In the beginning I had to learn the basics for a very long time.
s- how long have you been studying?
K- it's going to be for three years.
s- three years
k- we are training a lot
s- not every day. Travel with him
practice every day
Suk- I was hearing him practice at night. (laughter) 12- 1230 he was practicing
k- my hand was so pink.
s- gasp) lets see. 1800 oh my goodness look at your fingers you have deep ridges in them from pressing the sitar. And here
k- the cracking wire here.
s- oh my goodness they are blackened blisters from this.

s-is it worth it?
k-I think so (laughter)
s-It shows the physical cost of this music, or the physical commitment to it, yeah?
k-I think so yes.
1828 and are gurugees fingers like this?
k-Oh yea, way worse.

1846 SUK-we just came back from the Bombay concert.
S-Oh really how was it?
K-Oh magic
SUK-Magic. He played for four hours. I mean 85, four hours

S-How often does he do that? Give concerts?

SUK- not if I can help it (laughter) not more than two hours.
I almost stood up and said stop.

s- I mean in the year how often does he give a concert
Suk- 60 maybe
s- 60 concerts? That's more than one a week!

SUK-All over the world yea. U.S. spring about 20, and then autumn same and then Europe and then here. He did much more, I have a record of him performing 43 concerts in six weeks

Suk- more than one a day.
s- so when would he sleep or eat or rest?
Suk- he sleeps very little.

you're not feeling well. I asked him to mix some ginger for you.
s- I am sorry you are not feeling well. But you'll get her magic potion and you'll be fine.
Jes- yes she always takes good care of me. (laughter)
S¿Jessie when you are feeling better later in the week we can do a little interview with you.
Jess- sure I would love to do that.
I am from California/san Diego. my older sister works for KPPS. She's the main editor for the on air magazine.

s-Well good so take care.
Can I see your fingers.
Suk-He's a drummer.
s-Oh Jessie I was just going to say you were not practicing enough (laughter)

s-do you have calluses here?
Jes-From playing no
Jes-I play western drums, I play a little bit of tabla but never have gotten any. I used to before I studied technique. But since I learned how to not let the sticks rub then no

S-This kind of drumming is part of Indian drumming??
Jes-Western drumming? No

S-So what kind of music are you doing here?

well here I am studying- I'd rather wait.

(send him away to rest)

AMBI 23:33 with sweeping at the center, some bird noise far off, tiny dishes sound. 24:58 done

AMBI inside then reception room (with sweeping)? Sounds like rain. Or wind maybe 24:44 (phone rings once) AMBI continues 26:30 (I feel like I can hear the breathing or an electric saw in the background far off??)
27:17 done

30:21 (taking a tour)
joking about radio

s- you live here and work here? What is this center what is the reason that you do this?
it has been since I tried it in watanasee, my birthplace but it didn't work out. So we applied to our government and we got this land, very generous, you know and because we spent almost seven months outside of India. Somehow I cannot take the heat- we lived near San Diego¿
and because of that the whole thing got delayed. It should have been done four years earlier.
s- how long ago did the work begin?

31:49 R- just about ten months ago it was complete. But still our sound studio, our record studio is not ready yet, still another four weeks I think.
s- how many years has this been in the making?
Suk- about six years.

s- six and why, what is your idea to make a center
r- it was mainly to have the archive, all my life's work and also it includes my guru. My brother Uday Shankar, many things so we have got a lot of material that was one, and I also wanted to have creative thing going on, so the sound studio was for that and then of course this is not meant to be a school. Because there are a lot of music schools here, but here I was aiming to teach (power saw!!) what to listen for, how to listen to music. In India we have two different forms of music, north and south. This is not. I belong to that Hindustani style of music and in south it is catanatic style. Between the two we do not have proper understanding. And both of us have very little understanding of western music. So both of these are very important things that I wanted to do, you know, to create listeners and then also simultaneously research work. A lot of foreign students would be coming here. A few of them are already here.

s- then will it when it is finished. Anyone can come and use the archive, see the photographs ?
R- no we have to be very sure, not just anyone but really people with whom we feel are more in deeper understanding,
SUK- serious
R-who wants to know. Who are serious.
s- serious scholars? Right.

R-so this is what it is and then we are having quite regular programs here.
s- performances you mean? Concerts?
R-we have two rows upstairs , and three rows down here and all sitting on the floor with cushions.
SUK- we put down mattresses
R- beautiful about 150 to 200 people can, and then we have that big hall inside
S- come lets go see (walking) 34:34
So this is for open-air concerts?
Oh it would be wonderful to come sit here and music.
SUK- yes

R- yes, I tell you people who come here they are absolutely enthralled.
And then inside of course we have we can accommodate just less than 300 people with chairs as well as on the floor , sitting on the floor.
s- again for concerts?
R- yes, mostly.
S-Will you have lectures?

R- lectures, demonstrations, different aspects of music even starting from opera (squeaky gate yikes!) to symphony music, to jazz now bring in different styles, everything is going to be (resonant) included.
s- so we are inside now.

SUK-this is the pre-function area
R-this is the pre-function area
A lot of photographs
s- many framed photographs on the wall from different times of your life. There's the little Ravi.
(laughter, acknowledgement)

do you think you were-
S- seven-
R- ten - ten years old. This one is with my daughter Anoushka, who is not here now.
S-And here is with Rajiv Ghandi, and here is with the Dalai Lama
R- yes with the Dalai Lama.
Suk- Phillip glass, Richard Gere (chuckle)
R- Phillip Glass is there, Richard Gere is there, Anoushka and this was with when I did those two recordings which George produced.
S- George Harrison?
R- at his place in Fryer Park near London.
S- I see
R- And these are all musicians they are now superstars, but I brought them for the first time to tour and then since then they have become very famous.
s- all the Indian, musicians of India,
R- this is Satu Perai
S- satu Perai!
R- and our prime minister, Naru
S-Naru and you


S-This is how I know you, through these films. Pata panchalee.
I just remember hearing and seeing that.

R- this is Martha graham and this is, her name was Dorothy something, she was a great friend of Indira Ghandi. I forgot her name, Dorothy something.

S- Shiff- Dorothy Schiff. 37:02 from New York? A newspaperwoman?
R-not Schiff, but something.

s- but I love this of when you were a little boy.
r- yeah, that was taken in Paris.
s- when you first went over, when you first went to the west.
R -that was at the age of ten and that was in Paris home with my mother, Udlay the oldest, second and the third. They are all gone. My third brother died last year at the age of 95 (laughs at the fullness of life)

s- so there is good long life in my family.
r- yes, my guru at the center and two other gurus that have danced Katacally. Guru of (someone) the great and (someone )
s- yes (repeats name)

the center is of my brother
s- the brother Udai is center.
Say the name of your guru,

R- Baba Allow Den Kah.

S (repeats) the father of Allay Achbar who we know now.
R- exactly.
S- so when we sit down, I would like to talk to you about your Baba and the relationship between guru and student.
R- absolutely.
S- that's really very interesting to us.
R- this is one of our very famous singer. Ankah, in the film. This is again my guru's photo.
s- your guru
R-I did the ballet, choreography, I did the choreography also so I was showing that in the one of the artists (laughing)
s- she teases him, how's this, you look a little frightened there.
Your brother was very handsome, Udai.
R- ohhh, yeah
S- he was the first Indian Superstar
R- absolutely absolutely.
R-these were the four wives at a point and 47 at Bombay.
ss- oh your sister in law?
Suk- I wasn't born then. (laughter)
these were my first wives and four brothers.
(laughter continues)
R- you know I did a musical thing called melody and rhythm a whole group of about 80 musicians, and (someone ) was there and he was so moved he came running and just
ss- hugged me
R- yeah hugged me.
R- this is a fun picture you see, I am playing the tabla and (other) playing the sitar, just opposite. And this is allaya brikan and myself
s- you have a nice mustache there..
R-with peter seles.
S-They are wonderful pictures, they bring back wonderful memories for you¿
R-Yes and 1932 in Paris, with my father.

a very learned man with four brothers, I was the baby (softly spoken).
s- how wonderful to grow up with such a big family and older brothers that would look out for you
-oh absolutely I have been very lucky¿

S-okay here is too many awards
R- oh yeah, yeah¿
S- 40:32
And this is like the tip of the finger of all the awards you wouldn't have room, no house big enough.
s- but this a very good way to show them
what is this?
s- the fundraising concert you gave to support Bangladesh¿Colgate award
and what is this now? The auditorium?

R- this is the auditorium, we keep it
You know flexile sometimes we have Very very Indian audience, and it s all cushioned, they all sit on the floor. Then we have uh, a few rows of chairs, all around about, 13, 14 for people from embassies, or people who cannot sit on the floor and at time we have all chairs and that's the platform for music

S- and hanging lamps, you like them? Oil lamps for the concert
Suk- now we have a different way, we just light it.
S- you mean with electricity??
r- we cheat, we cheat a little instead of oil, which can be quite dangerous in the summer time so in the we it looks in the evening just like oil lamps.
J(off mic)
s- lets see.

S- I think you should go back to the oil- she jokes. This is really a wonderful room.
(Waiting to see if it works)

R- this works on battery? How long?
B- we can get two hours¿etc etc


S- oh now ¿ that's an amazing effect! Oh look.
r- in the evening it just looks like oil lamps.
s- its lovely likes that. Its little lights like a Christmas tree.

S-Do you always light incense first?
You light sticks?
R- that is separate for aroma, but you know we are finding many people are becoming allergic, somehow the new merchandise they use more sulfur than needed. It gives irritation, what we do is run it before hand , and especially singers have difficulty in the throat.
S- that's too bad, I remember
R- its funny, the only addiction I have is incense.
I cannot perform without having some incense. I have my favorite ones, they are very good. Old, in fact we have to fight at places who where they don't permit
SUK- now they do Carnegie hall, Albert hall everybody. We put it on contact that we won't perform otherwise.
44:24s- do you really?

44:26 (ravi chuckling.)
well that's right if you need it to make your art its like the air you breath right?
R_ it immediately clears an (snap) atmosphere, our background of our music our you know past, the spiritual feeling that is so necessary. You see now all the lights are on now. Now they are faint but in the evening they really look like oil lamps.

S- I want to go see this, it's really a lovely effect.
(off mic)
S- yes its like little wicks.
SUK- it's like wicks you see?
S- yeah.
Oh this is great.
J0 there is a man who does this for us.
s- I do love to see the lamps lit for Devali and¿
Suk- we do light them in the front¿

Suk-oil smells and unsafe inside.
s- good well thank you.
(go to look at the sound studio)

46:00 Teatime
Ravi - kanna is eating and bina is drinking
S- chai bina

S-thank you for the Hindi lessons. But you are Bengali¿(laughter)
R- yes I am Bengali so
S- but your Hindi is good¿
r- she is from madras

s- what is that over there?
R- this is our you know, some building you know, office I think so.

S- delhi has changed so much. I don't recognize any of it
R- chai tendahorahehe
S- chai tendahorahehe
R- that is "tea is getting cold"
S- oh!
R-so we'll
S- cold is , garam is hot, oh yes, tenda, tenda hora hehe.

s-chai tendahorahe
too many pictures, laughing (silver clanks)

r-ever heard of Escadera (Spanish dancer)

(sitting arrangements)

s- these are Madrasi?

48:52 ( tea time)
49:23 (pillow talk)50:40
we've been having cardamom tea. Masala chai

Madrasi- dosa's and those things?
Ashoka hotel - really good s.Indian food.

Susan tells about US embassy and Steb and Chester Bowles USAID
52:58 took Hindi lessons. 1966-1968
54:10 Roosevelt house, you would give concerts there right? Behind a wall now
R- everywhere. It's terrible.
54:47 Gift giving chocolate presents (daughter love it)
Guru Gee this is some music for you.
R- Yo Yo Ma oh I love that
SUK- you must come to our shows in Washington.
s- oh yes.

56:45 laughter over presents
and cameras clicking. Arranging. Lavender from France¿etc etc. flt story.
1:01:10 Blackwell ambassador, became warm and nice right before he left India
this is something I want you to see
s- the doors
(1:04:15 door slides open)
SUK-and I plan to have little bells here,
R-and to separate it you know (off mic a bit)

s- you mean the hanging bells.
R- most of the things are her creation, but this is very special.
S- a quilt?
SUK- this is all his old cotasi, concert clothes, Anoushka's clothes (ravi interjects- shirts)
Patched up/
r- but she planned it in such a way and designed it.
s- how wonderful. So when you look do you remember this was London and this was¿these are fabulous.
J I wanted to do something with it.
s- brilliant.
Suk- lecture demonstrations and etc here.
r- she was so anxious to dance for me¿all the musicians from madras.
Susan hits the floor- it wasn't too hard for her?

(off mic talking about dance styles, move outdoors)

Showing the dance styles?
R-we have many places for concerts. Here we plan to do, this platform.
s- yes¿
oh it's lovely
r- next year is the Girls College, Jesus and Mary Girl's College
Suk- this is a girl's college and his bedroom is right upstairs so he can keep peeping at the girls (laughter)
s- yeah you like the girls- I know you like ladies (laughter)

s-what is that road?
r-That is land - someone has got it.
We are happy as long as they don't build.

SUK-Jesus and Mary.
s-A girls college, pretty young girls safely behind a wall (that's terrible, Susan says as an aside laughing)

Suk- that is his bedroom
s-Very nice view
1:07:58 Romeo and Juliet off the balcony.

1:08:10SUK- shall we go to his studio?
s- yes and then if we can just sit down¿
Suk- show you the archives as well- its empty but we just built it.

S-These are the bells you will have.

1:08:35 walking through the center

Susan all these were done here, each stone six people worked on it for six weeks. Cutting them, see
-oh my goodness. From a single piece?

Suk-We bought it special hand craftsman that came.
s-Like what we saw in Agra, those single screens in one piece.

J and R-Amazing.
s-It is! This is what you were seeing before, these crafts so ancient still being done today

s-So wonderful to watch them. Wasn't the noise awful?
Suk-Oh now by hand.
r-Nothing mechanical

R-this is done for a special occasion. 1:10:05
s- ad then sometimes do they put colored powders also?
SUK- yes
R- is it rice powder?
SUK- yes.
Usually its supposed to be rice powder, so early in the morning we wash the front and we do these with rice powder and the ants come and eat it and bless the house they say.
s- ahh
and that's every morning
r-and we have different colors also
Suk- but mainly its rice flour.
s- is that a pujga
Suk- yes a ritual every day , kolum.
s- we'll follow you , tell us where you are going
Suk- those are the students rooms over there I'll show you.
r- this ¿mumble
we have a recording studio there, which we are going to see. This is for when work is going on people can sit¿
Suk- and take a break

s- love this , old lamppost, wonderful architecture. this is really
r- this is like a bridge
s-0a walkway
r- all have a what do you call , mumble
r- saris and
s- saris!
Suk- that was like a passageway, and I had to use it so I have like 8 wardrobes.
s- aye
you know how many saris that must be? Because they are folded up like a pillowcase, so if you have 8 wardrobes
, that s thousands
Suk- at least about 4-500 (said over Susan). At least. (laughter)
and I keep giving away every year and I keep getting double.

s- do you have a sari shop that you like very much?
Suk- oh Nali! Would you like to go to Nali?- you'll go crazy!
s- yeah. We will.
Suk- we can go.
R- off mic
Anything under the sun you can find here
SUK- he comes here for coffee
s- yeah.

they give very good coffee
s- and you buy coffee.
r- she goes for buying not less than 2 hours at least.
s- aye yi yi.

SUK-next door is the Shankar children's book trust.
S- here? Is it related to you?
Suk-no coincidence.
r- he used to be a very famous.
s- oh !
oh I do remember his drawings, his cartoons
(walking down stairs)
s- the big painter was Hussein. But I suppose he's gone?
Suk- oh no he's here.
s-is he alive?

some packing material lying here.

Enter a room ) - recording studio.
S- so this is the recording studio? Its good to have it down. Natural sound baffling.
(wooden chair dragged)

AMBI (quiet rustling)

S- who designed this (with chairs)
r- little associations and whatever
s- but you have this floor¿

(discussing sound proofing)

R- timber used for acoustics (people speaking over one another)
(Miniaturized digital equipment discussed)
s- isolation booth, also now three.
Suk- its small but¿

s- this is not small this is very good size
you will make recordings here?
r- lots! Lots of creative things. I love to do things, experiment.

in fact I very interested, five, almost like my students. Two of them already grew. The drummer is already here, he is my student, they all from (somewhere) and they wanted a name, name groups, name, jasmine, sounds like jasmine but is spelling is jazzmin so,
Suk- they coming here for a month
r- so I have composed a lot of pieces for them. Two of the girls sing, one bass one guitar and one alto saxophone and the keyboard.
s-so it's a jazz group. But you are going to mix east and west

R-of course a little the melodic part and all that, it will be something that they can be quite at home. Not all--
Suk- I am sooo happy about that.
s- you are , that's terrific, why do you like it

1:17:21 because this man is such a creative man. Its unnnreal. I can't sleep at night because his feet is moving all the time and I'll say , quiet! I can't sleep. It's tapping all the time, whatever

[and this is something new, with jazz musicians
r- will you call the two boys]
(in brackets they are speaking over one another)

R- at some point? They've gone out?
s- we met the fellow from Japan Jessie's got a bit of a cold.

r- he is a wonderful drummer. So good and I am teaching him all our Indian complex rhythms, its going to be interesting I am sure. So we'll start the recordings with them
s- yes.
r-and these are some of my old songs that have been very popular. They might be performing in Bombay, Calcutta

S- will you teach them I am missing you- I am what is it
r- yeah, with orchestra (J and R speaking over one another)
s- sing it for me?

R- sings I am missing you (j sings with to help out )
Dadeeda fizzles out.
Says the lyrics instead.
I hear your flute all the while
Please come and wipe my tears
And make me smile.

s- it's beautiful.
You wrote it in English.
(Ravi speaks over her)
r- it came in my mind, I didn't have to do it.
s- where were you when it came to you?
r- on the plane, yes in the states
s- that's why
r- lee Taylor young was¿ trails off.

SUK- that was his girlfriend, lee Taylor young, (Susan laughs) do you know? The actress?

s- lee ??
r- she was married to Ryan O'Neill.
1:20:00 Her father was a big wig in Washington, I forgot his name.

s- if you were flying over London, no if you were flying over France would the words come to you in French?
r- laugh) maybe I
s- that lovely that it came, that's so interesting that it came in English.
r- do you speak French?
s-un peu, toroporo.
r- laughs)
s- I speak French better than I speak Hindi.

s- which tells you that it's not very good.

Ravi asks Jessica about her Spanish
And bill- barely speak English
Jess- he speaks music.
B- I listen.

Suk- they come on the 23rd of January
s-so if you are going record here its got to be jeldi jeldi (?)

1:21:36 (shuffling) 1:21:42

Suk- this is like a place where people can sit when recording, just sit, have tea
s- oh that's beautiful look at that.
Suk-so the line was sloping down, so we utilized
s- but it will also help with the sound!
(asks bill)

Suk- (off mic) this is the dining room (walking in)
1:23:04 everyone sniffing. J laughing
s- something smells very good.
Suk- this is the kitchen, this is supposed to be my kitchen, this area
s- do you like cooking
Suk- I love cooking
s- do you?
This is fabulous
(taking steps)

s- for big parties (little clank)
Suk- this is cat boxes
s- I saw cat. how many do you have?
Suk- we have three
s- storage, this is fabulous.

Suk- ship all of this to the archive thousands of pictures (safe door opens and closes?) and dates you know
s- ohhh.
Who's got, where have you gotten the tapes? Do you keep them all of this time?

Suk- there is plenty there in the states, actually I have to ship that.

Suk-See this was it, when I met him, and before I got married, I saw there was so much stuff lying all over the place. Scattered all over the world. I thought, he needs this space, now,
(door creaks open) where we can store and house all this things
s- that was the idea (j speaking over her)
so will you ship this stuff from the states then? And everything will be in one place?
(SUK- affirming and speaking over S)
Suk- I think yeah.

but the tapes and things, you had over the years?
Suk- all over the place I had to collect from.
r- all over it was in brenada, I had a house there, some in London, some here, some in California (phone rings)
s- it's very good to bring it all together.

this is terrific (Susan whispers)

SUK-just 21 years old.
Namastay. Anoushka loves his food.

s- okay where are we going?
Suk- show them the archive

1:24:42 (squeaky door) S- have you tried to play the tapes? I wonder what condition they would be in if they are/¿
Suk- Alan Lascousky, has baked them.
S- we have 30 years of tapes also ¿etc.
But who knows, every technology¿


Suk- the old machines
RS- we love it

SUK- this is where the archivist will sit and listen to recordings, do the transfers, whatever, and the main archive is on the other side.
r- these are all working huh?

1:27:15 footsteps. --1:27:23 (small talk above now)

FX ( squeaky door again and longer)
Suk- this is the main
s- 0h,
Suk- k
s- these are sliding.
r- I love this!
s- yes I have seen these, yes it's fabulous.
Suk- careful.

AMBI looking around, sliding files)
Suk- storage. (big exhale? )
s- so this will stores the cds huh?
Suk- cds, files, platters, photographs everything , so , it takes a lot (sliding doors)
we just push them and lock them here. (more sliding)
s- its lightweight now but its going to get heavy.
s- more file cabinets, so for photos, programs (bill whisper?), so much the pictures in your book are so wonderful! People are always interested.

r- what sort of archive do you , undoubtedly huge!
s- we do several daily news programs¿(Susan cont.)
about 12 hours a day to preserve for 33 years.

r- there must be , they are not big.
Tell me
r-I am trying to find and buy old machines
s- a tape recorder that will play back?
R to transfer
S- we should put you in touch with ¿etc.

1:30:10 (talks reel size with bill)

high pitch squeaking- ends 1:30:20?

s- its like you can't find a phonograph to play your LP's, same thing.
Bill- digital copies of everything.
r- you have to.

1:31:30 (squeaky door, new room- Susan comments on the heat to bill)
s- is this your Cadillac?
r- mumble
s- and the jersey's going to make a special cover for this one?
r- yeah we have given the

s- the pattern, something to copy. I love the pictures of you carrying the sitar on airplanes
r- this is the original of the architect, she and we made lots of changes.
s- but still the concept is there
I can't think what that is called. This is what I love. Look at this . what is the name of your, is this the Delhi
Cunut place?

1:32:45 footsteps, banter between suk and ravi-
(enter the elevator)

S-this is good for you (to ravi in elevator)

Suk- shall we sit there or?

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