ML 161078


Interview :54 - 3:01 Play :54 - More
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Jim Steele  







Bird banding station discussion and sounds. Includes unidentified voices.  

Interview 10:06 - 52:04 Play 10:06 - More
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Unidentified people  







Bird discussions.  

Interview 52:28 - 1:21:06 Play 52:28 - More
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Donald Kroodsma  







Bird vocalization discussion.  

NPR/NGS Radio Expeditions

  • United States
    Plumas County
  • Carmen Valley
  • 39.6500042   -120.4881763
  • 2060 meters
  • Stereo
    Sampling Rate
  • 48kHz
    Bit Depth
  • 16-bit
    Equipment Note
  • Decoded MS stereo.

Show: LNS
Log of DAT #:7
Engineer: Fox


Walking, background noise

.53 UV
Well it's not gonna help because we really don't know. It's not a recap is it?

.57 UV

.59 UV
We've aged those pretty well a couple of times.

1:02 UV
We would say it's a second year verse. Is our opinion.

1.05 UV
Can we go with that?

1:10 UV
You've got the chart in front of you too so.

1.14 UV
I've got it here

1:14 to 1:23

1:23 UV
There's just one weird feather and I think it adventitious. Everything else looks six, but uh

1:26 UV
Seventeen eleven


1: 51 UV
do they bite?

1:53 UV

1:54 UV
I bet that bird, he could probably give you a pretty good nip.

1:57 UV
Oh yes he could, but I've got him held so he's not even thinking about it now. I just need to weigh him now and then I'll let him go.

2:11 to 2:35

2:35 UV
The weight was ten point seven

2:38 UV
Good memory

2:41 UV
Seventy-two eight. Does that sound about right? Here we go

wings flapping, flying away. bird squawking.

2:48 UV
Skull and plummet? Sex is male.

Birds in background. Squawking and tweeting.

wind. Birds tweeting. Crackling branches as if being walked on.

walking, branches crackling underneath. Mumbling and birds in background.

5:15 UV
Not doing a lot of moving, right to left, obviously. Doing a lot of up and down plain.

5:27 UV
That's good that you're stereo fields change.

Mumbling voices

It tend to get a little cooler when all the air comes down from the ridges and you get warm in the morning and then all of a sudden, god it get colder. Like truckies.

5:57 UV
Uh, that's um the Argentinean guy, Santiago

Which way am I going?

Ernie didn't know that route

With all of the introductions I didn't get your name.

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm Shawn.

Shinwa, I'm Mack.

Hi Mack. Nice to meet you. I went out the first one earlier. We're gonna do another run here.

6:42 to 7:32
foots steps on crackling branches

7:32 UV
So what do you think of our offices Shawn?

7:37 Sh
I'd like to come in every day.

7:48 Sh
Do you concentrate on one site for a long period of time or do you

7:53 Ma
No we have six sites and we do them every ten days, We have to hit the sites once in a ten-day period.

There are a lot of warbling berrials(?) today. birds tweeting. And them are breeding conditions so very few of them are

Sometimes, We must have had ten warbling berrial today. Which is unusual. I know we don't have that many breeding habitats. We've marked nesting territories. It almost gives me the impression that because of this dryness that birds are kinda looking around for another place to live.

10:05 to 10:57
Let me just show you something for the hydrology, how this is drying out. These are all tufts of carex, of sedge, and they are probably the most important plant in keeping the wet lands together cause they have real dense roots and when this dried up you can see sagebrush coming in next to it. And its probably over the last 20 yrs so you have the little mounds where the sheep or whatever have gone through and its eroded but they're still holding onto the roots right there so if we rewater these they'll be able to come back but when you loose that it even makes them harder. If you look out you can see all these little pines. I've been watching them come in for the past nine years, so that's probably about a seven year old pine. And pines only come where it's dry. So you see the vegetation you can kinda see how this place has been drying out and you look at our bird numbers and they've just been dropping.

birds tweeting

See here, this was an old sedge meadow but it's all dried-up. Sage and just these little tufts

birds chirping, more loudly

flutter of wings

12:01-12:29 Ma
That's another orange kind of warbler. This looks like a male cause you can see how much orange is on top. This is an adult male. They're up early this year. Usually you get them between the tenth and the twentieth. When we had a real draught year in 92' they're were coming up early too.

tweeting. Walking

We're beginning to see all these pines that have just come in since out tenure here.


Do you want me to be talking to fill some tape?

If you'd like. Or, those can over there, Where did they come from?

This used to be an old dairy farm and then an old sheepherders camp and that was probably where the sheepherders camp was, and, uh, I 'm not sure if, the forest service has been trying to clean this place up and I'm not sure if they just kinda collected them and put them in one place or if that's where the encampment was. It does look like a garbage dump.

These guys are more of a sagebrush. If the restoration happens their numbers will go down. We had an interesting thing with this, Dr. Sibly put the green tailed toey and the spotted rufus sighted toey in the same genus. They used to be in the same genus but he never found a hybrid and about seven yrs ago he found a hybrid. It had the this rufus cap of a green-tail but it had all the spots and the red eye of a spotted toey, so I called him up and he was pretty excited. He based it on the collar toey I Mexico it hybridizes with the spotted toey so when he saw this he was happy to know

So what have you got there?

This is a green-tailed toey.

High pitched tweeting. Mumbling


This is a western bird. You wouldn't see them out east. I don't know if you get them out in Wyoming. This is a rufus cap. Yellow on the shoulders and a green tail. She's on eggs so we want to process her and get her back.

So where do you think she's come from and where do you think she's going?

Oh, they're nesting out here. So they're very common in rehab(?) sort of sage and antelope brush. This meadow is in transition between a wet meadow and a dry meadow. So they're numbers have moved in. If we restore it and it gets wetter they'll probably move back to the edges where there's more sagebrush. So you're gonna see some birds change. Like the bruer sparrow and the vesper sparrow, they'll mo9ve out of here, but there is plenty of sagebrush around, it's the wetland birds that are usually the ones that are in trouble.

sound of walking on forest floor

"A finch". Cease walking. Tweeting

In a whisper, "It's easier to get the birds out that way."

rustling of wings

Another adult. Male orange warbler.

Hi. You got a load, huh? Sorry I got stuck on this guy but he was

I got a couple of orange crowns and they're your favorite

What is Cynthia's last name. I'm just curious about it.

Paddula. Cynthia Paddula.

Are these all seven here Jim.

No, hold on, I'll tell you. The one you just grabbed is out of seven, but there's only two here out of seven. We just pulled a toey out of six and we pulled myself out of the net twice.

I'll give you a hint: It's one of the finches.

Around here 3 toeys if finches.


No, those are sparrows.

Oh, sorry.

No that's all right, You're from Argentina. So you have a cason finch, a purple finch and a house finch. One thing is you go from house, purple, to cason, there's sort of a spectrum and one thing is the wings get longer from the house up to the cason's and the beaks get straight. A house finch is just kid of short and rounded so its almost a hemisphere and a purple finch is kinda long with a dip at the end and then its almost perfectly straight for a cason.

And sometimes the under tail coverage will be straight.

In a what?

In the cason's.

So, you see where I'm goin at? That's a cason. See how straight the beak is?
And we can verify that also with a couple more measurements on wing length.

strong flutter of wings


And see this is a second year male. It looks like, you can see the coloiqal protrubence here. Finches will get red in the third year, so it's an easy one to tell. But it look sort if like the female. The first time that I saw one of these I thought that the female sang, and then I realize it was a two-year male. These two are seven (pause) this came out of seven. Oh, this came out of six. I'm sorry we're at seven. And the other one was out of four and you have the one we got out of three. Oh, the one that I said was four was really two.


Here is some ambient sound and then I'll do another minute of walking.

Birds in back ground, very quiet

That one minute where we were doing vanding, uh, where all the nets were, in the middle of the field. And now here's again the walking.

Walking sounds (very clear)

That was about one trip around all ten nets at about eight thirty we're finishing up that.

Walking sounds

Conversation in background

General Ambience of the birding station, branding station.

Conversation in background. Birds chirping.

Oh, look at that beautiful bird. Look at him. Isn't he handsome? A deep black.

Mumbling conversation stating measurements of birds Pages flipping.
rattling metal. Flapping sheet. Mumbling of numbers.

"Two cloiqal protrubance, zero fat, no malts."

"We need more variety"

mumbling numbers of measurements for birds

"This one I'm gonna call, since we've never seen the sex on her. "

"Oh, you know, I thought that one was a male. I just thought it was a one or a two . That's definitely the one I looked out.
"I don't think they get a hell of a lot bigger than that."

"No they don't. And Susan, don't say anything. You try to get us "

"I won't use any inappropriate language again. "

More chat. More muttering of measurements.

"When this was wetter we used to have the purple finches. They'd be all over here. We hardly get them now. They would stay here until mid June when they would get through breeding and then leave."

"This must be a second year male, huh?

"Yeah, a lot of these seem to be male."

More muttering of numbers. Birds tweeting in the background and sporadic fluttering of wings. Wind seems to be louder.

Tape is stopped.

Recording starts again. Tracks across and they have to raise the tracks to get above the water so they make a birm. Once you make a birm you dig a ditch and then that ditch is now a channel and it's a deeper channel. It starts to capture the water and it has a much increase drop-off which gives enough power to start eroding and then it would just work its way backward. They call it a headcut. You work your way up and it would capture more and more streams if I could walk you down the whole way you could see all the side channels that are working their way in. They've thrown rock sin it, they've thrown check damns.

The forest service has kind screwed up, and partly, I think, we haven't understood the hydrology. Ya know, I think Luna Leopold kinda brought that into the forefront for a lot of people and now Dave Roskin. What we realize now is that you have to have a whole watershed picture and if check damns are done right they can be effective to a certain point but as long as the water is kept in this channel it keep sits cutting power, it doesn't dissipate over the flood plain. This whole meadow was once a flood plain and it would probably meander between this bank and the other bank. We can see where there was sort of a little dry plain on either side. This whole thing would've been wet you can see tufts left of sedges so you probably had all this emergent vegetation with lots of waterfall.

My guess is you had Willa Flycatcher here, which is ready to be listed as a subspecies. We have them come in the very wet years but they can't stay cause it dries out to quick. The willow would probably grow a lot more. When its wet you just see them shoot up shoots and they start to spread out. In the dry they just can't do that.

And so we're seeing, what we have to do is hit the whole thing and have enough money so we put together a partnership between, I brought some people in from the EPA and the Forest Service and Jim Wilcox over in the Plumice Corporation."
More talking on how this plan got started and how they got money for the watershed. Talks about channel being man-made. Harms that channel causes to watershed. Cattle is not the problem. Fixing the hydrology is the solution. Talks about the drop in the water table due to newly created channels.

Recording stops. Starts again.

With this dawn chorus that's so magical, so few people get out and appreciate it. So you been out, what, this morning, and will you get out again for the dawn chorus? I hope so. Randy says no, Kathy says yes. If I have any control over my schedule I will be out every day, much like we were this morning. So what goes on. Oh, you could list like ten different reasons why birds might sing at dawn, and there are some obvious ones like it's quite and the sound carries a long way and maybe the bird wants to tell everyone else that it's awake and it's alive, it made it through the night. A lot of mortality can happen during the night. And you can list a bunch of these reasons; Oh, maybe it's too dark to do anything else so why not sing, it's too dark to find food.

But none of those reasons, really, you know, the bird wouldn't have to sing at all. So if it's to dark why not sing, you still have to know why is it singing, why is it putting all of this energy into song. And most of you probably got the gray flycatcher this morning. I don't know anything about the gray flycatcher, so I can't speak to that, but let me give you a feeling for what goes on with the chipping sparrow in the dawn chorus, and the extrapolate from the chipping sparrow to other species that you might listen to.

I had a graduate student working with me for the last couple of years on the chipping sparrow, so that's the reason I can talk about them. And what he found, well, he was out every morning, he'd be out every morning at 4:30, in the cemetery, which is where these birds were so common. And the only reason he missed a morning is because he was sick or his son was sick, but he was out there every day, and its that kind of persistence that it takes to understand what's going on.

So this morning Bill and I, did anybody record chipping sparrow right here? Yeah? What we were doing is we were listening to one chipping sparrow over here and another one over here. And their songs are usually very different. The one over here had a very fast buzzy song, and the one over here was a drier rattle. And you can tell most chipping sparrows apart from their individually distinctive songs. And given that you can tell these individuals apart, you can tell what they're doing in the dark. It was much to light when we got out here this morning, the moon was, uh, there are times when it is pitch black, it's a good hour before sunrise, and there are three are four chipping sparrows around me within yards.

What I have done is I have is I have serendipitously located myself in a little arena where all these males come together at dawn.. So they all have their territories, all spaced out, and during the day, in the middle of those territories they'll be singing from the middle of those territories. But in this magical time, when it's still dark out, they are sitting on the ground, and they come together quite often, and I can't say this happens here because it's related to the density of the territories. The smaller the territories the more likely it is that the birds are going to be right together into that territory boundary. This student had four birds in one little clump. He removed three of them and the fourth one didn't bother singing.

So it's a matter of this social competition. So at dawn these things are singing all around and their songs may be three seconds long, at dawn they're maybe a half-second long, so they bird will throw out six of these songs a minute. What's going on? We can only guess.

There is a dominance hierarchy that he can show. There is always one bird that starts singing first in this group, take him away, another bird steps forward. The best guess that there is a little dominance hierarchy established, its negotiated during this brief time while most people are sleeping, well, some of us are out. It's all negotiated during this brief time, and that may set the story for what's happening the rest of the day. We don't know. Are females listening?

Our best guess is yes. All the blood from all the babies was collected from the nests in the neighborhood and the goal, then, was to check who was actually the father of the babies in these various nests. Have we talked at all about extra pair matings yet?


Just briefly. (laughing) This immoral of course, and we puritanical, we humans have been looking at birds through these puritanical eyes, puritanical at least as far as how we thought we should behave. We know humans don't behave that way, and the more we learn about the birds the more I think we can confess about ourselves too. But, you look at the DNA of the nestlings in a lot of nests, of all kind of species.

It was first discovered or described quite thoroughly in Buntings, Indigo Buntings. Up to half of the babies in the nest are fathered not by the male that is taking care of them but some other male in the area. So, what's going on in this chipping sparrow? Uh, dominance hierarchy, al these negotiations. Are females listening? Our best hunch is yes.

With birds like black cap chickadees they have these nice winter hierarchy. Then they brake up for the breeding season and the females still have choices. They are paired with a given male who will help her raise her offspring, but the females that are paired to males that are low in the hierarchy, ok, I'm may think anthropomorphically. If I'm a female low on the hierarchy, I made it to a young male. But there is this stud, the dominant male of the whole group, next door. If I can improve the quality of my offspring by having him father a few of the offspring, and I'll also mate with, because the more she actually mates physically with her own partner the more likely it is that he will probably help her raise the young. The more he will feel committed to helping raise those young.

So it's the females who are low on the hierarchy, the females that are mated to the male who is not quite as top quality as some of the others in the neighborhood. Those are the females that will seek the extra pair relationships and mate with males in other territories nearby.

So in chipping sparrows, what we would love to see is the correlation between who is fathering the young in the various nests and who is singing in what fashion at dawn, so who sings first who sings the fastest or the longest. So the chipping sparrows, we had one there and one over here, but we never them, well we might have been a little late, we were on the flycatcher for a little while, but we never got them right on that territorial boundary.

But as far as all this energy that goes into what these birds do during this done chorus, I think this chipping sparrow story comes closest to telling it best. A lot of negotiation going on among the males, and, perhaps, just perhaps, but very little proof of this, that the females are making choices based on that singing. Oh I could go on but you've got questions.

1.01.17 uv
Once the females are on eggs do they still mess around?

1.01.24 back to main speaker
Uh, that's a time when the males have time on their hands, so you might, a lot of these species, the females on the eggs, if his mating with his own female is done why does he continue singing so much? It's possible that he's singing because maybe they'll renest and he has to keep impressing her. But a lot of that singing probably goes on because there are other females in the neighborhood that are still fertile and he's trying to impress not only his own female, but others around. A lot of singing that goes on in something these species that are polygamous, like Marshrins or the European Great Reed Warblers, the males in the population more or less keep singing until all mating opportunities are lost. And the females are really in charge of this whole thing. Implanting a female with estradyol, a female song sparrow. That kept her fertile about a month after all the other females were done. And did her male keep singing? Non-stop. (laughing). So, it was this mating opportunity with his female, so it was the female that was really driving this whole situation.

1.02.42 uv
What it a happy song or a tired song? (laughing from crowd)

1.02.51 main speaker
I can't answer that can I?

1.02.55 uv
do the hormone numbers of the birds correlate with how much they sing. In other words, do the hormone levels of the males vary through the 24-hour cycle and does this correlate with how much they sing?

1.03.07 main speaker
Ooh. That's one of the ten or so reason thought that a male might sing so much at dawn, and that's self-stimulation, to boost his own singing. But I don't know. There are moment to moment changes in hormones depending on whether birds are fighting. But whether it high as they sing or not, I don't know.

I could mention briefly too, this dawn chorus, the birds that I know from the east, like a Chestnut Sided Warbler, a lot of these warblers, they have a song that they sing for 45 minutes during this pre-dawn, pre-sunrise period, and then they switch to an entirely different song. So it's a completely different song that they use during this pre-sunrise period than they use later in the day more with females and more advertising in the center of their territories. It'd be like these chipping sparrows have one song that they use on the territory boundary when they're scrapping with other males and then around sunrise or so, they'd be on top of a tree singing a totally different song.

1.04.25 uv
What do you define as dawn? Is it light intensity. When you say predawn, is that dark until fuzzy gray?

1.04.42 main speaker
It does depend a little on ambient light, wether it's cloudy or sunny. But remarkably, many of the birds that I have studied stay on a schedule. They start at exactly so many minutes before sunrise. They're on this physiological schedule through the day so that it doesn't depend as much on the ambient light as you'd think. That probably didn't address you question exactly.

1.05.08 uv
But if dawn is defined as when the sun peeps over, that's what I was asking.

1.05.16 main speaker
Yeah, um, Dawn might have a technical definite, I don't know what it is

1.05.26 uv
On the field data that the company is recording we offer an opportunity to express time relative to dawn, to noon to sunset. And so that fact that sunset is on there makes me interpret dawn, in that context, to mean sunrise. And in other contexts we speak of dawn as a longer period of time, which is that period when it's visibly lighter than it was in the middle of the night yet signals the approaching sunrise and last until the sun has risen.

1.06.12 main speaker
Yeah, so dawn is a loose concept. Some of us were talking earlier by the way about western tanningers sounding like horse robins, and, do you all know this western tanninger? Singing.

I thought it was a California bird since a house wren . . . (unintelligible)

1.06.42 main speaker
You hear the burry sound ( slight laughter)

mumbling of comments from crowd

1.06.56 main speaker
So the best guess about this dawn chorus

loud and clear chirping of one bird. Crowd silences momentarily

1.07.01 uv
That was it?

1.07.03 main speaker
That was it. Yeah. And we hear black-headed gross beaks down below too, the robins with voice lessons, the nice series. So the best guess about all this fuss at dawn: It has to be about birds negotiating their relationships with each other. Maybe somehow declaring, ya know think about, we were pretty hungry by 8 o'clock this morning. These birds have been fasting all night long, some of these birds are very small. It probably takes a tremendous amount of energy for them to put all of this into singing. And maybe what better time is there for females to demand some kind of a show by the males on an empty stomach and how long can they go and who can sing the longest and the loudest. Probably all of this is going on. But so few people are hooked on what goes on at dawn, even in some of the most accomplished researchers you will read, 'oh we didn't start studying these warblers until seven o'clock because we couldn't see them until them.' And they've missed the whole thing, missed the whole day.

U1.08.12 uv
These chipping sparrows in a tight group, do they take turns in their calls or do they call on top of each other?

1.08.19 main speaker
If they can signal how aggressive they are by how they interact, if they ignore each other these little bullets would overlap and there would be not set pattern. If they are really listening to each other they alternate, he'll sing, he'll sing. They'll take turns, with just two males. If you have more than two males it becomes a little bit more complicated. But the most aggressive response is when one male sings and the other immediately overlaps him. And that signals and escalation of the confrontation and often when you see that kind of overlapping a fight follows so that the bird who overlaps the other one attacks. So they can signal a lot in just whether they overlap, alternate, or ignore. Really, 2 possibilities that they have.

1.09.22 uv
Is there any tendency to imitate, match or conversely to distinguish in that particular pattern being sung.

1.09.34 main speaker
Chipping sparrows with just one song don't have this kind of potential for matching, this kind of gamesmanship. But the song sparrows we're listening too, a beautiful story worked out by a friend up in Seattle in Discovery Park, where these birds have about eight songs a piece and they learn them from each other, mostly song birds learn the songs from each other.

By the way, these two chipping sparrows with very different songs, one did not learn them from the other but an individual male chipping sparrow does learn the precise details of his song from one other male. They have this one-on-one tutor, two t relationship. And then sometimes you can hear that in the field. Here these were very different from each other and there was a third one very different down below. There not part of this little micro, two t relationship. But sometimes you hear two of them with exactly the same song and you know that they have some kind of a special relationship.

But with son sparrow, they have about eight songs in their vocabulary, and they learn those songs from their neighbors. Suppose the neighbor has eight songs, they share four of them, one bird maybe has learned four from that bird and some from the bird over here, when these two are talking to each other, and they really do talk to each other, if they're ignoring each other both singing along they will probably sing songs that are not shared, so this male will sing four songs that that male doesn't have. The most aggressive response is if this male is singing song one out of eight, this male also responds with one. That means that they're really paying attention to each other.

lay That interaction is deescalated if this male chooses songs 2 through 4, either 2, 3, or 4. Songs that that male has in his repertoire, can sing, but isn't singing at the moment. So they're acknowledging each other by using a song that they share but no so aggressively that they are matching the exact same song. So you see all this potential for these subtle interactions that go on that most of us out here are saying, 'oh there's a song sparrow", we get some on tape and then we go on, but when you sit and camp there for a couple of year (laughing) you start to realize all this fascinating stuff that going on.

1.12.22 uv
Has there been researcher to show what other male the chipping sparrow learns his songs from. Is it a father or an amary(?) male?

Yes. It's definitely not the father. This student banded a lot of baby chipping sparrows and followed them everywhere and one would go a mile away and during his hatching summer he'd settle next to a bachelor male who was singing non-stop. The perfect opportunity for this youngster, as he was fighting for his own little space, to learn this song. Sure enough, the youngster came back the next year and that bachelor adult did not. And his song was unique. There was no other male like it that neighborhood where the youngster set-up his territory . His father and all of the other males had songs that were very different. The only place, well, almost the only place that this young male could've gotten his song is from that individual male where he was setting up his own, where he would come back the next year and set-up his territory.

An so we had lots of other examples like this too, with a young bird leaving home, never had a song like dad, probably could have learned dad's song, and did learn it before he left home, and this has been shown in other species too, but just rejected dad's song so that he had a song at that new location that somehow gave him an advantage for setting up a territory. So, it's never dad. It's always the male next door where his is setting up his territory either late in his hatching year or the next spring. They can postponed their learning until the next spring, because some of these chipping sparrow babies don't hatch until all of the males have stopped singing for the year. So they can postpone that learning for the following spring.

1.14.16 uv
"Most of what we have been talking about is . . ." The mic is bumped against and move around so that the little can be heard.

Yeah, we were talking this morning about, well, when we first start listening and identifying species all song sparrows we hope sound alike. We hope we can identify them as song sparrows. But the more you listen the more you start to hear all the little details, and these chipping sparrows, well, the whole world opens up you when you start you start to recognize these different individuals. And we could be sitting here, eyes closed, having breakfast, and if they were singing, you could here these birds defining their territories. You'd here the rapid buzzy one over here and then he'd be over there, as he was this morning. He was just flying back and forth. But these birds have highly social lives. They know who their neighbors are. You could play games with sounds over loud speakers and instantly they'll know if they have a new neighbor or if the status quo has been disturbed. So they can recognize individuals by their songs, by their sounds, easily. A good reason against using any mini disks for serious recordings (laughing)

1.16.16 uv
Are you saying individual chipping sparrow don't show any or very much variation in the song they produce.

1.16.22 main speaker
No, they have just one song. But if you catch a male, a youngster while he is developing he'll be practicing up to three or maybe even four songs. And you can, you catch, those songs, it's while he is babbling. You know, all of us humans go through this babbling stage as we practice our speech. The birds, these songbirds do exactly the same thing. As they're babbling you can record a male's song, and they're highly imperfect, but you can say that part of that song matches that neighbor there and that part matches that neighbor over there. Or maybe it's a bird that doesn't appear in that neighborhood seems always to be the song of the male that's on that next territory, that he has fought so much with. So they have the potential, they practice three or four, but they settle on just the one, the one that matches the neighbors.

1.17 20 uv
A lot of these birds return to the same territory year after year provided they make it through migration. Can you speak to the question of whether they remember their neighbors or not.

1.17.34 main speaker
Do they remember their neighbors from the year before? I think that some work on Great Titts over in England did show that, that they have this rather remarkable memory for individuals in their past.

1.18.76 uv
Did Haben(?) Wiley do some work on, uh

1.18.78 main speaker
He might have done some work on Hooded Warblers. I think you're right, yep. I think you're right. So the Hooded Warblers and the Great Titts. And there are lots of anecdotes about crows. I was talking to Kevin McGouwin recently about the social life of crows in Ithaca. He says well they can be gone for years and come back and they still know their brothers and sibs and they have these complex relationships. We're not necessarily talking about sound now, but it's the same idea, that they have social lives every bit as rich as ours. But it takes some doing for us to uncover that.

1.18.50 uv
Thank you very much for that. Everybody not only better understand the ____ what we saw this morning but opens your sensitivity to conservation in the future. And that's our real aim, is to give you some tools to go out and practice further so when you come upon neighbors of the same species you'll be paying more attention and will recognize the timing and orientation . . . (fade out) predator prey interactions

May be I can add too that you think that someone just beginning can't contribute much but it is amazing how much is not known and as soon as you start to listen carefully you start to pick out things and then you go to the literature and you read all the expert accounts and the expert accounts don't mention any of this. I did this with Bart Owls recently. I said, well the female has a higher pitch than the male, but listen to the yuaw. It's hukuks for yu, hukuks for yuaaaaww. The female I'm convinced drags that vibrato on the yuaaaaw out more than the male. And so I ran to LNS and said show me all of your Bart Owl recordings and I'm convinced that one those recordings too it was the female that dragged out the aw. And as soon as you can recognize the male and the female, you don't have to have perfect pitch anymore. Just know that the female is just a little higher than the male. As soon as you can recognize the female , that the female is dragging this thing out, then you can start to recognize what the male and female are doing in the duet. So all it takes is just a little listening and querying, what's going on, in ways that so few people do. But as soon as you put headphones on in this group and start to listen carefully, that's the first step. So the whole world will open up to you once you start to listen.

1.21.09-1.22.21 uv
"Well, what about equipment selection." Mumbling. . . "that's preserved to a degree, but many of the complex interactions the actual physically spaced array of microphones is the technique of choice. Use multi-tune recording. Like Kathy talked about the fine grained analysis of you recording

1.22.27 uv
Are the sheep moving downhill or at least the sound of the sheep?

Mumbled conversation. Mumbled discussion of an interview

We're slating about two minutes of ambience. About as I'm calling off about thirty or forty steps from where he was just doing his thing.

Sheep calls in background. Birds twittering.

Walking on forest floor.

Jovial conversations and some laughing in back ground. Some movie of pots. Very faint sheep calls in background at certain spots.

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