Vrinda Davidasi, Alex Chadwick
NPR/NGS Radio Expeditions
7 Nov 2003
- 27.58389 77.7019
- SONY TCD-D8
- Sennheiser MKH 20
x2 Sennheiser MKH 20
Partial log follows:
Show: Geography of Heaven; Vrindavan, India
Log of DAT #: 15
Engineer: Flawn Williams
Date: November 2003
20s. Friday morning Nov 7 interview Indian school administrator woman at MVT gazebo. Very loud aggressive birds nearby during several stretches of interview, other parts fine. Return to rooftop of Raoul's temple, another interview with Goswami Nandan. 2:06:00.
FW: this is tape 15 it'll be starting out with split track mkh 20 ambis. We're hoping to do an interview with a school teacher¿that's as much as I know right now¿let's get a little ambi here in anticipation of that¿
(00:00:40) Nd: soft ambi, birds cawing occasionally, squeeking and sqwaking, chirping. Human activity in distance¿
(00:03:00) That's ending room tone at the Gazebo at the MTV¿Preceeding was some ambience¿ including some parrot fly overs.
New track starts, AC and FW talking, AC introduces [Vrinda] to FW¿ chatting¿
(00:04:14) AC: When did you do that?
(00:04:16) Vr: Ahh, Three four days before. That was nineth day of this month, auspicious month, and ah, that is very auspicious. On that day, people do it prikrima (sp) of Matura and Vrindavan. And on that day I hurt my toe. It became bleeding also. It's belief that on some auspicious day we are doing some pious day and you get hurt, it means that your past birth, some big deed, big bad deed, and you get smaller punishment due to grace of Krishna.
(00:04:58) AC: From a past, past birth?
(00:05:00) Vr: Yay.
(00:05:06) AC:¿Well that is kindof what we wanted to talk about, the idea of past birhts and future births. Let's see, are you ok? Could you just begin, ok, my name is Alex Chadwick. I'll give you, here I'll give you one of my business cards, so you can just see who is¿now I don't have one here with me, but I will get one and give it to you¿But, could you just give me your full name and how we should identify you?
(00:05:41) Vr: My full name is Brinda Dividarsi..
(00:05:43) AC: And could you spell that for me please?
(00:05:45) Vr: V_R_I_N_D_A_D_A_V_I_D_A_S_I
(00:05:52) AC: And is that three individual words?
(00:05:56) Vr: No, this is ah, Vrinda Davi, first two initial names, Vrinda Davi is the name of Goddess Vrinda, so here in Vrindavan, you know, Vrinda one, one in hindi means forest, and vrinda is a tree of tulisi, tulisi name is also Vrinda, its synonym of tulisi. So this is the forest of vrinda, intially when vrinda was here, I tell you from starting. 5000 years ago, God became in the incarnation of the Krishna, and then he was born here, and he was born in Gokul, this is 84 coasts, 500 kilometers, full area of Brazeria, where Krishna took birth, Krishna play sport, this whole area is in 500 kilometers, and so this full area was full of trees of Tulisi, this sacred trees was full of tulisi, so this was named as Vrindaone, forest of Vrinda, and this tree is one goddess Vridna, she took the form of this tree, behind it there is also a story. She took the form of tulisi because she was the wife of ah, some demon (?), and she was very much dedicated to her husband, and god came to take test of her didication towards her husband, whether she is fully fidel, fully you know dedicated to her husband or not. So, he took the test of, lord took the test of here fidelity to her husband and she gave curse to god also, even to god also, and she became in the form of a treee, Vrinda, and god was like under her feet, because please, please forgive me, and then Vrinda Davi said, ok, you will always remain with me, and God in the form of Shalegram, here God is, you know shalegram is like a stone, oval stone that is like Shalegram then God took the form of Shalegram, and he always stays at the feet of Vrind Davi. So, this is the story of Vrinda, Vrinda is the name of tulisi tree, Vrinda Davi, and my name Vrinda Davi Dasi indicates that I am a servent of Vrinda Davi. In Hindi, Dasi means servent. So I am servent of Vrinda Davi. So my identity is with, my identity only I am servant, Vrinda Davi, I am not Vrinda Davi. My identity is only I am servent of Vrinda Davi, goddess Vrinda, I am servent to goddess Vrinda. This is my identity.
(00:09:07) AC: Now I'm going to digress here, which is a mistake I know, but we want to talk about afterlife experience and the lifecycle, But also, I'm so struck here by how everyone I meet here identifies themsleves spiritually, whereas if I aksed you this question in the United States, who are you and how should I identify you, you would say, I'm Vrinda and I am an attorney, and I am working as the in the school as the manger of the school because to be an attorney is a very learned posisiton in society, and a lot of distinction, so that's how people would, but here you say, I'm Vrinda and I am a servent.
(00:09:58) Vr: Yay, of course I'm attorney, I was practicing before shifting to Vrindavan, but when I shifted to Vrindavan, I sacrificed my everything to Krishna, and now I no longer think I am attorney or something, I have, everything sacrificed to the feet of, lotus feet of Lord Krishna, I have qualification, still I am working as attorney, still I am working as a legal advisor, but here, whatever I am doing is doing attached to Krishna. In Food For Life, we are serving people, we are serving for the people more dear attached to Krishna, so everything is attached to Krishna, so I have sacrificed everything to Krishna.
(00:10:42) AC: So I'll just note that Food For Life, which is a program that tries to¿
(00:10:50) Vr: Krishna Consciousness¿
(00:10:52) AC: To ensure Krishna Consciousness, and food for (Vr: life) poorer people here (Vr: life, yay) Nutrition, health, education¿
(00:11:01) Vr: yay, because our basic goal is, you know, food for life was also started by founder Agariav Iscon Shilapragupad (sp). You know that? (AC: No) This Food For Life concept was started by him only, founder Agariav Iscon Shilapragupad (sp). Because one day he was in the temple of Mayapur, he was in the balcony, and he saw that two children were fighting with a dog over food that was left by somebody, and he was so sad to see that, that children were fighting with the dog so he ordered his disciples that nobody should go hungry within ten meter radius of the temple, there should be surplus preshadum (sp), surplus food distribution in the temple and then since 89, 1989, we are distributing here in Vrindavan, so his disciples started in Vrindavan also, two times a day we distribute Preshadum hgere, because this was also his belief, that if somebody has empty stomach, then he can't listen your philosophy, then he can't understand god, then he can't go beyond you know, stomach, he can't think about past life, and past deeds, and he can't think about future. He's always stuck with his empty stomach, so first you feed them, and that also preshadum of Krishna offering, first you offer to Krishna, because whatever you offer to Krishna, that becomes nectar (AC: nectar) yay, so when you will give that nectar offering to the children, to the people, then they will purify, their inner self will purify with that food. This is not ordinary food for you know filling our stomach, this is nectar to purify our sense also. Preshadum distribution will also purify from within, and (?) will also purifyu them, and then one day they will definitely become pure souls and will go back to god head.
(00:12:59) AC: What happened to you in your life, or what made you decide to stop being a practicing attorney, where you in Deli?
(00:13:08) Vr: In Chandiger
(00:13:10) AC: Sandiger. And to move here to Vrindavan and dedicate yourself completely to Krishna.
(00:13:15) Vr: Yay. I was practicing in Punjabin (?) high court as an attorney, and I was doing good, but I saw in that profession, this is my personal experience, so much falsehood, you know (AC: falshood) people themselves say, that we have committed wrong, but we have no other way, but just save us, we have commited forgery, but please, save us. They are ready to do anything with money, so they can do everything for money. So since my childhood I am Krishna conscious, because my mother is Krishna counscious, since childhood I am worshiping Lord Krishna, and suddenly it hurt my feeelings and in some matrimonial cases also, one person took divorce with fraud and it hurt my feelings. So I thought I should use my qualification for Krishna, I should serve him, there is no use to serve these materialistic person, I should serve him.
(00:14:25) AC: Let me ask you a question, questions about the afterlife and about heaven, if I may. When we speak of heaven in my culture in my society, mostly it conjurs up for people images of a place that is far away, you go to, you die, and you go there and God takes you in, your family is there and people who have been important in your life are there and you share eternity together. That's not the idea of heaven here, because this place, Vrindavan is is heaven, and its not like that, but maybe this is heaven because this is where Krishna is.
(00:15:16) Vr: Yay This is heaven, you know, many spiritual people, do you want to know about past life?
(00:15:25) AC: I do want to know about past life and future¿
(00:15:27) Vr: People's belief about past life. (AC: Yes) Of course, all our Shastras, all our Vedic Shatras, you know, Do you know something about Vedic Shastras?
(00:15:39) AC: No, you'll have to explain it because our audience isn't going to understand that because they are Americans who don't know anything about Krishna, or
(00:15:47) Nr: Because when the society start, when this world, universe started, there were many intellectual people, there is always you know different class of people. Intellectual, and less intellectual and very dumb also. There were very intellectual people who had very strong relationship from the very beginning with the God. And they during medidtion they percieve very good things from the god, that how this universe started, how this relationship started, how this cylce of universes going. And then because universe started there were no, you know, this age of machine, there were no machine, there were no method of writing, something in records, documentation, there were nothing, so they spoke their ideas to their disciples, and suceedingly, their disciples then told that teachings to their disciples, to suceeding generations, so gradually this information from succeeding generations ultimately came one age when people started writing on leaf flats with, ah, leaf of peacock and with some color, then they started writing it, and then we advanced our technology, and we started this machine age, and we can print, this information is basically coming from what people percieved from medition direct from the God, and they spoke their oral information given to the succeeding generations, and ultimately briefed into writing, and that is you know shastras and vedas, (AC: lessons) coming from the very beginning when the universe was started, so in our shastras it was written that this is the cycle this is the cycle of from this cycle of birth and death is the result of our past birth deeds, whatever we do is accountable and is accounted, kept in account of the god, and what ever we do you this universe is you know Newton's Third Law and Newton's Third Law is positive and negative, where there is positive there is negative also. This whole universe is based on this formula that where there is positive there is negative. So where there is bad thing there is good thing also, so we are also entangled in thisbond, negatives and positivities, so what ever we do, sometimes we do more positivities, our senses are so, Shastras are also based on signs, they say, like positive and negative we have three nature, Radjas, Tamas, and Sat (sp) Satuguno(sp). So these three qualities control us.
(00:18:44) AC: And can you explain what these qualities are?
(00:18:48) Vr: These, these qualities are satugun, is like purity (AC: purity) total pure, and this radjugun is mixture of Tamugun and Satugun (sp), this is mixture, and Tamugun is totally negative. (AC: totally negative) Negative. If you have more control of Satugun, you will be more inclined to positivity. And these these qualitites also depend upon whatever we think and whatever we intake. Our diet also, that's why in our shastras it is described three kinds of diet also. Satu Rago and Tamo (sp). We are also 5 element body in that you must be knowing? 5 element body? (AC: yes) Five element, earth, water, sky, fire¿these five elements are also controlled by these three qualities and then we become the body and then our body is also controlled by these three elements. Satugun, Rajugun and Tamugun, our bodies controlled by that. And our nature is also controlled by these three qualities and these three qualities are also controlled by whatever we take from nature. Whatever we take from nature Nature gives us three kinds of food that we take. If you take more tamu, tamus, then you will become more more aggressive, negative, destructive, like if you begin eating non-vegetarian things, animal, because you are taking the same diet, you are also made from five elements, and this four legged cow is also made from four elements. You are taking more tamus in you, you know, and if you are taking three elements body, like this flying, flying animals (AC: birds) birds, these are three elements, because in them no sky, because they don't have mind, like I described cow, that is made of four elements, we are made of five elements because we have sky also we have mind also, and cow has four elements. Fire is there water is there, earth is there because she has body, she has bones, it means earth is there. She has four elements, but she has no sky. Because they have no mind, intellectual. And birds have three elements. And these reptile organs, they have two elements. Just earth and water¿skin and blood. And one element body is these trees. They are also chatran (Sp) they are also living, but because they are made up of only one element, they have very less chetna (sp) very less living sense. But they are also living beings. All universe is made up of five elements only. And we are the top mose creation of the world because we have five elements. Five complete elements, of the nature, so we are the top creation of this universe, and if we start eating some animal, some creature who is made up of four elements, then we are taking more tamugun, more negativity of the nature inside us, we are eating life only, and we are not the creator of life so how can we take life.
(00:22:22) AC: Isn't it true that we are eating life also if we eat plants as well?
(00:22:28) Vr: Yay. Are rishimunis (sp) have explained, earlier our rishimuni when they started doing the Pasiya (sp) and when they started doing something very pious in meditation, for many many years they don't even take one leaf, anything, they just live on air, because they did not want to take anything from the nature, they themselves want to go back to Gopna (sp) and do so much meditation and do so much thing that they wanted to reach God, but Shilapragupad (sp) and our shastras and even lord Krishna, lord came in the the incarnation of Krishna, he himself made very easy for us. Because by nature we are not so powerful to win our senses and do some much dedication and do so much sacrifices, we cannot do. If I say you one week will live only on air, you will succumb, you will die, so he made so easy, he said you eat these one element, only made up of one element things, but you first offer to Krishna, and then you take that Prishadum, then it becomes nectar, because Krishna Lord Krishna also became in the form of human being to teach us that yes this is the truth of life, but if you live in this way then you will accumulate less bad deeds and more good deeds and ultimately you will purify your senses will purify one day doing that also, there is no need to sacrifice so much that you leave everything and you don't eat everything, and you do so much dedication, so much sacrifice, there is no need. In Kaliyug, especially in Kaliyug (sp), God has said in Bahagvaghita, that in Kaliyug, you just chant Hare Krishna Mahamantra, because this is directly given by chetani Mahaprubu, (sp), this is another incarnation of Lord Krishna in the Kaliyug. That was in the Dawaparug (sp). 5000 years ago Krishna came in the Dawaparug, therefore, Yugas. You might be knowing. Setyug, Treta, Dwapar, and Kaliyug. This is the final Yug of one cycle of this universe. This is the final Yuga, era. This is era of Kali. In Hindi kali means, in Sanscrit Kali means ¿a machine.¿ This is the era of machine. Era of technology. This is the era of technology. That's why you see you know so much advancement in technology, so much advancement. So¿
(00:25:25) AC: When you think about, ah, death, the cycle of life, what do you think happens after you die, what do you think happens to you.
(00:25:39) Vr: You know, whatever we have accumulated in this birth also, in this life, and at the end of life, we go to next birth, and one factor which determines our body in the next factor is the condition and state of our mind at the time of leaving our body, leaving our boyd, so suppose at the end of our life we are thinking about, with so much dedication you are involved thinking about our children, our beloved ones, our parents, our friends, so this soul has nature, it will go to that only, to whomsoever it is attached so much, so in next body, of course our body will roam around whom I am so much attached, it will try to get the body in that particular area. You when, when this soul leaves the body,