ML 161049


Sound Effects :04 - 6:03 Play :04 - More
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Vrindavan street sounds  






Includes street musician performing.  

Interview 6:11 - 47:29 Play 6:11 - More
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Padmanavh Goswami, Alex Chadwick  






Religion discussion.  

Sound Effects 48:06 - 1:02:42 Play 48:06 - More
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Vrindavan street sounds  






Includes a passing parade.  

Interview 1:03:20 - 1:04:34 Play 1:03:20 - More
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Alex Chadwick  






Standup promo.  

NPR/NGS Radio Expeditions
5 Nov 2003

  • India
    Uttar Pradesh
  • Vrindavan
  • 27.58389   77.7019
  • Stereo
    Sampling Rate
  • 48kHz
    Bit Depth
  • 16-bit
  • Sennheiser MKH 30
  • Sennheiser MKH 50
  • Sennheiser MKH 40
    Equipment Note
  • Decoded MS stereo, subjects 1, 3, 4. Split track with MKH50/40, subject 2.

Show: Geography of Heaven
Log of DAT #: 9
Engineer: Flawn Williams
Date: November 2003

DAT 09:
MS. Weds Nov 5 afternoon. Closer perspective of street singer/instrumentalist outside MVT compound. Go to Radha Raman Goswami's house for wonderful lunch.
02 00605 Switch to split track for interview Radha Raman temple goswami in his living room (Alex L ch MKH50, goswami R ch MKH40).
03 04750 room tone for Radha Raman goswami intv
04 04800 Switch back to MS, big noisy parade with marching brass bands, loud PAs, and floats en route back to MVT. End 1:08:05. End Weds recordings.

DAT 09: MS. Weds Nov 5 afternoon.
00000 Closer perspective of street singer/instrumentalist outside MVT compound (more distant version of an earlier appearance by this same guy is on DAT 3 at 02700). Hypnotic music, drum and string player. Someone tries to sell Flawn the drum. Music stops. Quiet alley ambi for a few seconds, then clean restart music.
00200 Someone strikes up a conversation with Flawn about his recording gear. Then music continues. Music stops, conversation continues.
00350 Conversation ends, music continues. Car starts up in distance down the alley.
00500 Walk away from music, back into MVT compound. Car starts and idles.
00540 stop down,Go to Radha Raman Goswami's house for wonderful lunch.
02 00605 Switch to split track for interview Radha Raman temple Goswami in his living room (Alex L ch MKH50, Goswami R ch MKH40).


(6:11) AC: First I should tell you who we are. We're American journalists working on a story about belief and beliefs in different people around the world. Carolyn manages a project for National Geographic and National Public Radio which is what we work for which is a network that we work for kind of like the BBC in the United States. And we're doing a series of pieces about beliefs kind of centered on the idea of beliefs about the afterlife how people, different ideas of the afterlife, how people live their lives in anticipation of the afterlife. And some people have told us about you must come to Vrindavan because it is heaven. So we are here to learn about this community. If I could just begin by asking you to say your name and how you would like to be identified.

(07:19) PG: Myself Padmana Goswami from Vrindavan, this is the very holy place in India because the Lord Krishna he has took his birth in Mathra (sp), and in childhood he has played the raslila (sp) and some others game with his cowherd boys and cowherd girls on the bank of Jumuna (sp) in Vrindavan.

(07:49) AC: Jumuna is the river.

(07:50) PG: yay.

(07:51) AC: Would you please spell your name and give me the name of the temple that you are associated with.

(7:58) PG: My name is Padmanavh. P-A-D-M-A-N-A-V-H G-O-S-W-A-M-I. And Radha Raman temple. R-A-D-H-A R-A-M-A-N T-E-M-P-L-E.

(8:24) AC: Thank you. It is sometimes hard. We want to get things correct. And it's hard to understand. Goswami is a title, it means something, yes?

(8:36) PG: Yay Goswami is a title and that is the two senses in the Goswami. That if you will find out the surname of the Goswami it means that we are connected to the temple for the deity worship in the temples. And there is the two meaning of the Goswami. One mean, the Go means the senses, and swami means control. Who can control their senses, their title is the Goswami.

(9:14) AC: And what does it mean to control your senses?

(9:16) PG: The senses, that is you have the feeling, the touch, you have hungry, you have want to enjoy, but you have to control your self, your senses, that you are not under control of these material things. Whatever you want, if for example you are taking daily the back tea, and if somebody will not serve you the back tea so this is also ok for you. If you have not got the tea, this is no problem, so you can control your senses. There is, if you have not found out the tea, you are not under control the tea, You are under control to control your senses. That is the main thing. So if you have some (?) that you like to take the ice creams, and no body else serve you the ice creams so you feel little bad that today I have not took the ice creams, but ok, if no body serve this does not affect you. So that is the senses in the human body. And who has controlled the senses, these are the Goswamis, that is the name of the title that we have come to find out. And second meaning of the Goswamis. The Go means cows, and Swami means who is the master of the cows, who is taking care of the many cows. So from the time of the Krishna's time, the local Brijbasi (sp) who live in the, in this Brij (sp) area, we have called them the Brijbasi. And they take care of the many cows actually. The cow is the very dear animal of the Krishna. And according to our Vedic scriptures, the cow is the very important according to our religion.

(11:19) AC: And why is it that the cow is so important. It has to do with Krishna?

(11:23) PG: Yay this is dear to Krishna. And second thing is according to the scripture this is mentioned. All the other in the Vedas and the scripture in shima Pagwatum (sp) and other scriptures this is very clearly mentioned that in cow's body all the god and goddess they lived. There is the place for the god and goddess who lived in the cow's body. So we have give full respect and the full honor to the cows and Krishna has also gived these things. Krishna is very, he loves cows very much you can see the poster and pictures, and in the temples there's we have worshipped the cows, and you can see the behind of the Krishna there is the cow and in many pictures you can see that. So that is very respect in our Vedic religion in our Hindu religion for the cow. We have worshipped the cows also.

(12:33) AC: Tell me what it is that makes Vrindavan a holy place. Why is this a holy place.?

(12:42) PG: Because the Krishna has played his past times here in Vrindavan, and if we will, that is the 5000 years before the Krishna's lifetime, and you know that in the religion who has took the incarnation out, who has appeared, that places go are naturally and automatically the holy place.

(13:14) AC: Where the, where Krishna has appeared.

(13:18) PG: Where is the Krishna and any lord has appeared, for example, I just tell you, the Krishna has appeared in Matrha and this is ah Vrindavan and his pastime he has celebrated his pastime in Goverdan, Radha Kunda, Nondagam, Barsana, Vrindavan, Gokul, Dowgi, (sp) different places. These are very holy places for us and for example if you will go to Ayutaya (sp), Lord Ram has took his birth in Ayutaya. So this is the holy place for also. So where is the lord has appeared, that has the naturally the holy places he has performed his lelahs (sp) means is pastimes with his cowherd boys and cowherd girls. And after the Krishnas, after the Krishna when he has disappeared from this planet, then the Chetani Mehapru (sp) came to Vrindavan 500 years before, and then his followers came, and right now you have seen the main deities in the temple. That Chetani Mahapru's followers they have find out this Krishna's deity in Vrindavan in the different temples which you have visited or not visited I don't can't say these things, but for example I just tell you that in Madan Mohun temple (sp) there is the deity of Radha Madan Mohun this deity is find out by Sanahtan Goswami (sp). There is the deity of Govenadergi (sp) This deity is also find out this also the Krishna's deity. This deity is also found out by Roob Goswami (sp). This Radha Ramangi (sp) deity which is our temple this is our ancestor this Goper Goswami he has worshipped the Shaligram Shila (sp), and this deity has self manifested in the form of Krishna from the Shaligram Shila. So that is many deities in the Mahapro's lifetime and after the Mahapro we have find out here. So you can see that lord of temples for this region in Vrindavan.

(15:32) AC: How man temples are there here?

(15:34) PG: In every house there is the temple, really they are uncounted but generally we have called that 5000 temples in Vrindavan.

(15:43) AC: In Vrindavan?

(15:45) PG: Yes. In every house you will find out the temple and in every house you will find out the deity of Radha and Krishna or maybe the Chetani Mahapru. Any deity you will find out in Vrindavan in any house.

(16:04) AC: Is Vrindavan, ah, I wonder why Vrindavan is such a place for Krishna it seems like more of a place Krishna even than Murta the town where he was born yes?

(16:17) PG: Matra, yay.

(16:18) AC: Matra.

(16:19) PG: But in Vrindavan he has performed his Vras Maharas (sp). This is the very important I don't know if you have seen or not seen there is the Ras the dramas like that the pastimes of dramas of Radhas and Krishnas and Gopees (sp). Actually that lord Krishna he had performed that Maharas in Vrindavan, particularly in Vrindavan. And this is very nicely mentioned in the 10th kanto in Shima Pagwatum (sp), in the scripture about this Ras and this is he had performed this ras this Maharas with the cowherd girls and cowherd boys what we have called the Gopees and Gwalas (sp). And that is he has played like that these things in Vrindavan. So this is very auspicious things he has performed here. And¿

(17:26) AC: But playful things.

(17:27) PG: Yay, and in the scriptures this is mentioned than the Krishna he was playing these things to Vrindavan. That time all the lords and the demigods and the Goddess they want to watch this things. But in this Maharas there was only one male that is the Krishna. That is maharas, which is you will see is earth night, in the temples you will visit Radheran (sp) temple radasham (sp) temple goverdan (sp) temple and maderman (sp) temple you will see that they will be nicely decorated with Radha Krishna's deities with the Gopees also. This is the full moon day, and in this Ras there is only one male that is the Krishna himself. And other all the Gopees those are the females. And those are the very famous story that lord Shiva and his wife Padwati (sp), they want to watch this maharas, but the Gopees they are taking care that only the females will enter in this premises to maharas where they will perform this Ras so they have allowed the padwati who is wife of the lord shiva to enter into that premises but they have stopped to shiva because he is the male, he is stopped him that no you cannot go inside, but he was very eager toward that maharas, so he has changed his form as a female, as a gopee and in the form, lord shiva, who is also the lord in our religion, and he in the form of the gopee in the female form and he has entered in that premises towards the Ras, but Krishna, he who is the supreme personality, he who is the god head, he has immediately recognized to shiva, who is the form of the gopee, in the female form. So he asked, why you should change your form? So he told that what I should do, because the Gopees they did not allow me in the male form so I changed my form and as the female form and I entered in the premises to watch your Maharas. So in Vrindavan there is the Gopeesurmahadran Temple (Sp), this is a very famous temple, and Lord Shiva in Vrindavan he worshipped in the form of the Gopee in the form of the female.

(20:07) AC: What is the mahadras?

(20:09) PG: The maharas means there in the scripture this is mentioned there is the 16108 Gopees, (?) and everybody wants that Krishna wants to play with her, but Krishna is only Krishna, so in this particular day, the Krishna he has expanded his formed, and he has performed the Ras with the 16108 Gopees. And in that maharas, that Krishna was with every gopee. It means that Krishna's form was also in 16108. Every gopee is feeling that Krishna is performing Ras with her. There is not only one Krishna. Krishna's form is already 16108. So this we have called the maharas. That 16108 Gopees and 16108 Krishnas. If you will go to the buncibut (sp), in Buncibut there on the wall there is the painting and in the painting you can see that Krishna with every Gopee. They have on the wall there is the painting, and he has played the flute with every Gopee and dance and play and everything that actually the Krishna has satisfied to every Gopee. So this is the Maharas. And there is after, there is the bigger story then Krishna has disappeared from this Maharas, then there is the gopee geat, which is the very famous gopee geat in shinga padmetum, so I think that the (?) has the gopee geat in her city so this is another story for this gopee geat.

(22:21) AC: Um¿How do the devotees here in Vrindavan, what do they do to express their devotion to Krishna?

(22:38) PG: Actually the devotee that if you have made the little category that who lived here who has stayed here for the temple for the deity worship, they are completely attached they are completely involved with the personal deity worship of Radha and Krishna in any temple so they are doing their duty they are doing their devotion to serve the personally the deity of Radha and Krishna in the temple and the devotees that come here from the outside they come for live here for enjoy for visiting the temples and holy temples they watch the deities they enjoy some programs and these things. But in other tradition which is the most important in the devotion, that is the love and affection. That devotees should keep a love and affection with the lord, because there are so many stories mentioned in the scriptures that one side we think that Krishna is the supreme personality he is the supreme god head, he is the controller of this tree universe, so that when he is the controller of the tree universe, to compare with him there is no existing for our self. If we will think that he is the controller of this tree universe. So if there will be a mood of the humbleness, there is the mood of the surrender, and keep affection and attachment and love, this is the need for the devotion. The Krishna he does not want to the ego, he don't want the pride. There is the two different words, the pride and the devotion. If there is the devotion, there should be no pride, and if there is pride, there should be no devotion. So Krishna wants the devotion, but Krishna does not want the pride. And there many studies in our scriptures, that devotees they have some pride, and lord wants to destroy that pride, their pride, so Lord want that we have to keep this relation with love and affection. And that is the very important thing here in this Vrindavan and the Brajmundal (Sp), that devotees they have do their pavseva (sp), paseva means which is the mood to worship for the pleasure of the Radha and Krishna. For example, which I feel personally for our self, this is good for me. The same thing that we should feel for our lord, if I feel that milk is good for me and I like very much milk. Ok I like milk and this is nice but first I have offered milk to Krishna, then I will take this milk. I like the fruits, but first I have offered the fruits to Krishna and then I will take, I like the sweets, but first I have offered the sweets then I will take. And in our things and generally in our traditions the goswami families or the devotees who lived here, anything we have got new, just like the clothe, any food stuff, any thing in the new, or maybe in the car or television, or the fridge, or anything, first we want to offer to Krishna.

(26:52) AC: What would Krishna do with a television?

(26:54) PG: We want to put the picture on the television of Krishna. If the car is new if the car is first came, first we want to put the picture of Radamangis, the Krishna's picture in the car.

(27:05) AC: So you put his picture in the car. Krishna, yay

(27:07) PG: Ah yes, you don't feel that Krishna will drive the car. But we want to offer this is the actually the feeling that we are putting the picture of Krishna in the car, in the new car. If the clothes came, we just put the clothes on his lotus feet. If the (?) came, first we want to make the ice cream and then we want to offer this ice cream first to Krishna. First to fruit, used to from the fridge to offer to Krishna. Any new things we have to compare that is first for him, we want to share with him. Actually this is one type of pave, this is the mood which we have feel for our self, good and nice, the same thing we should keep to feel with our Krishna. So that is we have made the relation like that. SO this things has doubled the devotion in the heart of the devotees. That we have not feel anything without Krishna. We have not do anything work without Krishna. We have not, if we will write the letter, you will see that first we will write on the top, (¿) this is means all glories to SiriRadhara (sp). Then we will start to write our letter. So this is the trained actually then coming in our family and the tradition and in our culture. So then we have give these feelings for the devotion and these things have doubled up more devotion

(28:55) AC: Your family has been in Vrindavan for how long?

(28:58) PG: For the last 500 years.

(29:00) AC: 500 Years? Did your family build this house?

(29:03) PG: This is my, four generations before they made this house, but I have the old house they have made the 400 years before.

(29:12) AC: There is another house here of yours that is 400 yours?

(29:15) PG: There is the one old house is also, backside of the temple.

(29:17) AC: In your¿In your family for 400 years?

((29:19) PG: Yes. So I am living here in last, I am serving the Radha Mungis (SP) deity in my family last 17 generations.

(29:32) AC: 17 generations?

(29:33) PG: Yes. I have whole family tree, whole family tree.

(29:39) AC: And why is it always your family that does this?

(29:42) PG: No we have the complete family. We have the descendent from the Gopal Goswami (sp). And the the Gopal Goswami has given the deity worship to the Damudadas Goswami (SP)who was the householder. Right now we have the forty families who lived in this campus, in this area. And all this family we have take care for the deity worship of Radha Mungi. And there's, then we have some system and some customs, How we have divided our times in terms of the worship in the east family. So that is some system, and my personally will come on this year on the 21 of November, my personal worship for the deity worship of Radha Mungi. So that is some systems, so all the families we have some systems and every temple they have their system and they have their own management. There is not anything as big, everything is very systematical, and very normal on the way to proceed or to work.

(30:48) AC: Yay. What is it that around 500 years ago led to the the founding of Vrindavan.

(30:54) PG: 500 years before Vrindavan was the forest. There was the Jemuna, and there was the forest, and there was the Goverdhan hill and there is the few things you can not imagine Vrindavan like at present now is more roads and more houses, multi-story buildings construction lot of things, but in all my life, when I was a child, I have seen lot of forest here, but last this 20, 25 years there is lots of development, this all this construction and buildings and the multi-story buildings and all this things, but this was the quite natural things were here, so 500 years before there was the (?) forest Vrindavan, there's only this not very constructed building, some grass hut, like that, huts and very village people they lived now you can see.

(31:58) AC: And what happened so that Vrindavan so that the town came to be at the temples were, were built here. Why does Vrindavan, why did the town come to be here?

31:13) PG: Because now than then more people actually then when the Mahapru has stake his boat in that Mayapur, and then Chetani Mahapru according to that philosophy we've also worshiped to Mahapru that he is the joint incarnation of Radha and Krishna. So he has took his boat in the Mahayapur about 517 years before. And he inspect a lot of his followers that you have to go to Vrindavan, you have go to Brajmandal, you have to stay there, you have to meditation, you have to do your devotion here, you have do your meditation here, you have do your writing the scriptures writing the books here. So actually Chetani Mahapru he has lots of inspired of his followers, so then the lot of people they came from the Bengal and the Urisa, and they have settled here, so after 500 years before then was the pupils every year every growing and growing and growing and growing. So now there is more growing and growing and growing pupil.

(33:39) AC: When but when you were a boy the town looked different than it does now?

(33:42) PG: That is true.

(33:43) AC: Much different?

(33:44) PG: Yes. There was the only few cars, very few cars, I think maybe 8 or 10 cars in the whole city, I think that 40 or 50 scooters in the whole city. Only in the bicycles. There was not taxi, if we find out the taxi we have to go to Mahtra to ask the taxi. Mahtra was the big town. But Vrindavan was the very small town, not very convenient. Now you can get nice facilities, nice room, the air conditions. You have immediately connected with you with the internet to anywhere in the world. You can use your mobile for everywhere in the world. So now the world and the Vrindavan are very close, there is no big difference between the world and the Vrindavan, but 25 years before that was the big difference.

(34:43) AC: So that must be both good and hard.

(34:50) PG: This is in some ways the hard, and some ways the good. The hard way is that the number of the tourists and the people and the devotees are coming in Vrindavan, the same type of facilities and same type of the system in the cities, the government are not able to increase that. Or they are not able to provide that these level the facilities.

(35:25) AC: There aren't the right kind of the facilities there.

(35:27) PG: Yes. So these roads are not good, (?) the government should take care of lot of tourists, lot of devotees, lots of persons are coming in Vrindavan from all over the world. There should be the nice road, nice facilities, nice town hall, some parks, some proper some arrangement, little proper, like much proper you are in the west, but some proper arrangement so the people they will feel little comfort, they will enjoy the devotional mood. So this is little hard and I am not satisfied with these things, I want that when some tourists came, and some people came or devotees came, So this is I like that I should be a, give them full warm welcome that they should feel that they come to Vrindavan, and they should not feel in their life that they were in Vrindavan, and in other sense there is nice lot of devotees are coming, lot of people they have very much interested with that, ah, Vrindavan and the temple and the religion and the culture about the Lord Krishna and the temples and architecture. Lot of things. So we have nice things we have the good connection with the people and a lot of Indian people also coming now in Vrindavan. 20 years before I have never seen that there is the weekend in the Vrindavan but now if I have go to the Krishna Malum (sp) temple or some temple site so I can imagine about the weekend. Now the weekend the many Indian devotees came now, but before that was not, that there was few months, this is little crowded. In the Gorpuleman (sp), that is the month of Fagun (Sp), this is the month of March, little May and June, in the month of Swawrn (sp), the Chulenyartra (sp), just generally the month of August, and Genmastchmi (Sp), the Birthday of Lord Krishna and the Kartik, these few four five months is a little crowded, but now is the holy year is crowded, these months are more crowded.

(37:56) AC: How many people come to, you were the mayor of Vrindavan at one point?

(38:02) PG: No my father was the mayor of Vrindavan.

(38:04) AC: Your father was the mayor. But still you know the city. How many visitors come to Vrindavan every year do you know?

(38:10) PG: Now? (AC: yay) I think 10 million.

(38:15) AC: 10 million?

(38:16) PG: Yes. On the last Genmastchmi (sp) the birthday of Krishna in Vrindavan there was one million people.

(38:24) AC: In one day

(38:26) PG: Yes.

(38:28) AC: That's a lot of people this is not a big town.

(38:32) PG: But no body the government has not controlled the people. Nobody has the government's side, or the administrations side has controlled the people.

(38:40) AC: Do you complain? Do you¿

(38:41) PG: This is this is the control by only the Krishna, this is the we have the faith that he has control and he has managed and fitted to all this one million people in this small town.

(38:54) AC: Ok but you know you have very serious pollution in your river there, the, ah, there are sewers in the streets. There's trash. What do you do?

(39:08) PG: I have many times I have complained to government. And government has spend the millions or rupees, and government where this money has gone nobody knows. And I just tell you just three years before. In the Ilawad high court there is the Yupis the province, (AC: The high court..) And the high court is the Illawad. And there is the chief Justice, Mr. M. K. Mitra.

(39:34) AC: Mr. M.K. Mitra the Chief Justice, in the¿

(39:37) PG: ¿Three years before (AC: Yes). And he was the disciple of my father, so I invite him, and they was, in his court, in the high court, in his court, that Jejuna pollution the river was going on.

(39:54) AC: The pollution of the river, The Jejuna river, yes¿

(39:57) PG: ...and I personally invite him, he came here, and I personally took him just on the Kashi (sp) cart. And I told him¿

(40:05) AC: You took him where?

(40:06) PG: In the Kashi cart, on the bank of Jejuna. (AC: Ok) And I arranged that he will worship on the river Jejuna. And then I sit just to next him, and I asked him that this pollution rit (?) against the Jejuna, polluted, in your cart this is under, in your court this is under pending. And now, you are not in the court, but from your own eyes you can see the things.

(40:33) AC: He could see the pollution. (PG: Yes) So what happened?

(40:36) PG: So he told us ok, I am seeing, but I can only pass the orders in the court, administration they will implement my orders, but the administration they are not sincere to implement my orders.

(40:53) AC: The government no matter what they rules, nothing happens¿

(40:57) PG: That is the problem¿

(40:59) AC: You know that is the problem everywhere not just in Vrindavan. (laughter)

(41:06) PG: So, actually, just, this is the painful for us, actually I just tell you that three things, which is very much completely connected with our Lord Krishna. Three things. The water, this is the Jejuna (AC: The river) ¿river, which is all the Krishna's time. This should be the pure, that should be not polluted. The dust, that Krishna has took the dust of Vrindavan in his mouth. There is the story in ShimaBahagva (sp) also. This dust that Krishna he himself taste, this should be also the pure. And I can sure you the devotees like that in the Bengal and the Orisha (sp) when they came here (?) they put the dust in his mouth. Ishtilnow (sp), the little (?) dust in his mouth. And they have take off their clothes from the upper side, and they take role on the floor (man calls out in background) that they want to take dust on their body. Ishtil they want to do this thing, Ishtil they are doing these things.

(42:30) AC: People come and they roll in the dust on the ground.

(42:32) PG: Yes, and so we want that this dust should be pure (man calls out in background). And there should be the forest, that Krishna is like the forest. In Vridavan, the forest is going less and less and less. Government now, little bit, they are talking, they are talking much, but doing 2 percent. They are talking 100 percent, but work is 5 percent. This is ratio. So this is little painful for us.

(43:07) AC: When I told a friend of mine that I was interested in the geography of heaven, he said, ¿you must go to Vrindavan because Vrindavan is heaven.

(43:17) PG: Yes, and I just tell you that Krishna he is the first person in the environment who introduced the importance of the environment.

(43:27) AC: Krishna talked about the importance of the environment. What did he say?

(43:30) PG: He has given the protection for the forest he has giving the protection for the animals, he has giving the protection for the water, in Jejuna, he has giving in Bridjmundal you will go, you will (?) Lord of Kundt, what you call the lakes, (AC: Lakes, yes) this is Krishna's time. This is the importance that how you collect, and they are only the collecting the rainy water. In the many senses he has gived the knowledge or the teaching to his devotees or his follower that how is important for these things for the important for the environment. So I can say that Krishna he is the first person who has introduced about the (car honks in background loudly) importance of the environment. There is the story I don't know if you know or do not know. There is the Calianog (sp) There is the poison snake in the Jejuna. (AC: Ok) You heard this story¿

(44:35) AC: I know there is some kind of a, yes, there is some kind of a bad god in the Jejuna river, and this is the Ca¿

(44:45) PG: Calionog, this is the poison snake. And Krishna has (?) him and he wants to kill them and the wife has asked Krishna please protect my husband and Krishna says, ¿ok, leave this Jejuna, go anywhere but leave this Jejuna.¿ That means that he wants the Jejuna should be very pure. So that is actually the need for right now. Otherwise, if this things will not, nobody will take care. I'm not taking, I'm not complaining to anybody, but I am this is the request or the suggestion or the things that the government and the NGOS and the public and the devotees if they were not serious they are not sincere they will not think for next two years, maybe ten, twenty years, they will lose many things.

(45:50) AC: Why don't the devotees understand this, why do the devotees throw trash on the street?

(45:55) PG: Actually there is the big problem here, the local here, they are educated, but they are not very seriously they are thinking for these things. That this is our culture we have to protect these things. This is a big pain in our heart also, that local people they are not very serious for these things. And actually this is the local people they should start to think this thing, that this is our Vrindavan this should be clean this should be green this should be protected. If we will lose our this culture and these historical things and the temple, we will lose everything. Why the people are coming here? They are coming to visit these holy places. They want to visit these temples and the jumuna and the Goverdan and all these tourist pastimes of Krishna's places. If, this will be poisoned, this will be in a very bad situation and nobody will take care, then this will be a problem for the future generation and the next generation. We will not forget that we are the guilty. This is our fault.

(47:25) AC: Thank you.


03 04750 room tone for Radha Raman goswami intv
04 04800 Switch back to MS, big noisy parade along main road en route back to MVT.
04920 close up percussion and chanters, loud PA chant leaders, and floats. (Some distortion early on in loudest parts before level adjusted.) Gets more distant.
05100 getting closer again after being distant, Hey Radhe Radhe Radhe! Car horn sustained blow,
05200 chanters distant, now nearing recorded music from a float.
05300 close to float with recorded music, segue to percussion group
(some clipping on loudest drum hits)
05415 segue to different music float, two cycle engine drone with recorded music
05600 closest pass to this float, loud music clips on peaks
05800 segue to next music float, both fairly distant
05850 close to this float, it changes its music to new tune
05940 ***** segue to live chanting band with percussion
10020 they get more distant, dissolve to quiet street ambi with a bit of two cycle engine, then the engine passes, ambi gets quieter, distant voices and very distant music, cars pass
10215 AC: Well, that was pretty good! FW: Yeah¿Mardi Gras¿..
10245 FW backannounces parade
10320 AC standup: "The sound trucks have these lighted displays, a kind of a almost a sideshow kind of quality, Flawn compared it to Mardi Gras but there's also this kind of a kitschy quality to it of¿.the circus is coming to town! And it is a circus, it's a moving circus, with a sort of faith, kind of ¿.exuberance and bliss that they talk about. It's just¿.Wonderfully joyous people jumping in the middle of the street, and these ¿ sort of slightly addled and irritated Vrindavan townfolk, maybe coming home from the office or trying to get somewhere anyway, and the street is just JAMMED with this Hare Krishna parade that's materialized out of who knows where. And people are trying to squeeze around it on the side, uh, but they can't actually get mad at the parade because there's all this incredible sense of ¿ bliss that the Krishnas talk about and indeed exude all the time."

10440 ambi follows; main road, vehicles pass, some distant hammering.

10530 noisy truck engine passes

10600 RG (offmike): that's the end of a parikoram (circuit walk) that's lasted about a month, I think. On the one hand it's a sacred tradition, but the way they've adopted the cheesy part of our technology, it's like a stake through the heart¿just awful.

10700 AC, RG, and FW discuss seeing people from Radha Raman goswami at parade¿then talk about recording gear.

10805. End Weds recordings.

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