NPR/NGS Radio Expeditions
12 Sep 2003
- Kaeng Krachan National Park
- 12.75085 99.59839
Decoded MS stereo
Show: Wildlife Trade
Log of DAT # 15
Date: September 2003
(Talking about tape times)
MS (2:10): Okay, we'll pick up some ambiance here and walk to the shade of the tree
Ambi (2:15) insect chirping, water rushing getting louder (2:50), bird chirping, foot steps on forest floor (begins 3:20). Footsteps end (4:29), different birds chirping, sounds of water and insect life (faint but constant).
MS (5:40) ambi ends
MS: (5:59) You can fall back with them, fall back with them
MS: (6:07) Ok we're tolling here and the reason why we are rolling here is that I am going to use this as a piece of the trail too. So I'll get them coming up the crest of the hill. You can hear me working (panting).
Ambi: (7:01) crunching footsteps
MS: (8:06) Now I'm going to step down, catch up. 8:10 on my mark, stop down.
(unclear dialogue "¿in here")
Ambi: (8:26) bird cawing
Ambi (8:58) footsteps begin, walking through low, wet foliage, squeaking of rubber soles of shoes, constant bird cawing and chirping
MS: Missed me.
Ambi: (11:24) footsteps growing louder
Ambi: (11:56) unzipping of bag, sounds of equipment, cleaning off of something
(13: 05) low muffled Thai voice and language
Ambi: (14:03) sounds like metal or hard ceramic clinking together
(13:17) two Thai voices exchanging a few words in Thai
MS: (14:15) Soy can you explain what you just did here?
Soy: (14:23) (Thai)
MS: 14:25 Do it in English, try it in English, (laughter) if it doesn't work we'll try it in Thai but try it in English¿What have you just done here?
Soy: (14:34) (unintelligible¿)my camera for change the battery and film and next day I just put it in the same way. I need to, to carry it back before the weather is humid maybe catch the camera so we need to bring it back to the dry place to change the battery and film.
MS: (14:57) Ok, now this is part of your project and on this camera, what do you see? What pictures do you see?
Soy: (15:02) Leopard, elephant, munchuk, human
MS: (15:17) And that's what comes through here most in that order?
Soy: (15:20) Huma¿
MS: (15:21) Leopard, elephant, munchuk, human
Soy: (15:28) Yay, uh, the human is at high frequency because this way go to the the peak that we call Kopa galang (Thai word that can't be understood)¿around here, so many people walk for to go to that (same word) and for bird watching. And Leopard, also you just tell, just tell really easy to move, same animal and human, walk in the same way.
MS: (16:00) Do you ever see any tigers here?
Soy: (16:02) No
MS: (16:03) But there are tigers in this park
Soy: (16:05) Yay
MS: (16:06) But farther north or farther south?
Soy: (16:10) in my area we got the two tiger, up there and down there, but the tiger not move in this way we move in the inside the forest but we pass in my area.
MS: (16: 24) In your area where you have another trap?
Soy: (16:27) Yay
MS: (16:28) So basically anything that is in this park comes through here, you, you trap
MS: (16:35) And anything that is available in one of the markets illegally, like talchilik across the border is also available here.
Soy: (16: 41)
MS: (16:42) This national park is sort of like a grocery store, a supermarket for a poacher.
Soy: (16:49) Right, yay.
MS: (16:51) Because everything is here.
Soy: (16:53) Mm hmm.
MS: (16:54) And uh, in terms of enforcement, do you think enough is being done, here, to stop the poachers?
Soy: (17: 03) Uh, non, not the enforcement ah, not stop the hunting in the area, but the hunter is lower activity than in the past.
MS: (17:24) Lower activity and not just because of the season, lower activity because there is better enforcement?
Soy: (17:30) Ah both, some season is low activity but in terms of if you compare in the same season in different year is be a little bit lower in the past because of enforcement but not much
MS: (17:56) Not much lower
Soy: (17:56) mm hmm
MS: (17:57) So you are describing a situation in the park where the poaching is relatively stable its not worse than it was before but its not better than it was before either.
Soy: (18:07) Right
MS: (18:10) And do you think that with better enforcement that you could stop all poaching in this park or is that impossible?
Soy: (18:18) I think it is impossible but (can't understand) the poacher
MS: (18:23) You think its impossible but it can be reduced
Soy: (18:25) Yay, ah if you need the right or wrong term is maybe can stop but you need more than enforcement you need education of (can't understand) for people, give him two alternative to (can't understand)
MS: (18:46) Give the poachers an alternative way to make a living.
Soy: (18:50) Yay.
MS: (18:51) But even if you cave them an alternative, if there are people outside of the forest willing to pay for what is in the forest then you cannot stop it, then poachers will come because they will be paid enough to make it worth their while financially¿do you understand?
Soy: (19:13) I'm not sure
MS: (19:14) okay, we are talking about local people here, you're talking about villagers. If you give them some land if you give them a crop, if you let them have an alternative way of making a living, fine, but on the other hand, as long as there is a demand for leopard skins for tiger skins demand for parts of munchak and these other animals as long as there is a demand outside of the forest¿
Soy: (19:40) Uh hm
MS: (19:41) ¿There will always be poaching here even if you give the villagers who come in and are occasional poachers some other way to make a living, yes?
Soy: (19:50) Yes, yay. So, but, the hunter, professional hunter to kill animal in order is really feels person now, because when one hunter needs to train from, from senior hunter and we are not left much hunter in the area, maybe one or two person is like professional hunter but the professional hunter is like a popular person the rancher is no when he have an activity, so like a..
MS: (20: 37) But that is in this park, in other park, different situation.
Soy: (20:42) Same situation
MS: (20:43) Same situation. Okay. But as long as there is demand, there will always be poaching. It is not only enforcement here that will solve the problem.
Soy: (20:53) Right
MS: (21:53) You can have one hundred percent enforcement here, but as long as there is demand, you were telling me this earlier, I mean, you should tell me that again. I mean, when will poaching stop? That's my question. When will poaching stop?
Soy: (21:07) Poaching stop when demand stop. Not have the person buy the tiger skin ah, the, ah, the hunting stop.
MS: (21:25) There will be no traders, there will be no hunters
Soy: (21: 27) Yay.
MS: (21:29) So the demand has to stop
Soy: (21:30) Yay.
MS: (21:30) Before anything else.
Soy: (21:32) Yay
MS: (21:37) Do you think it will, ever?
Soy: (21:42) I think it will, but ah its¿like a¿difficult to give (can't understand) to every people to, to (can't understand) of the wild life. Ah, so
MS: (22:09) Education is difficult
Soy: (22:11) Yay¿Mass communication is good way to spread idea
MS: (22:21) But does your head tell you that it can be stopped or does your heart tell you? Does your heart want it to be stopped but your head knows that you can't stop it? Or are your head and your heart in agreement on this?
Soy: (22:34) Not sure
MS: (22:28) [To interpreter] Does he really believe it will stop? I mean I know he wants it to stop because he wants it to stop but what does his head tell him?
Interpreter: (22:45) (Thai)
MS: (22: 53) Not emotion but logic
Interpreter: (22:55) Mm hmm (continuing in Thai)
MS: (23:00) (To Soy) Because you are a scientist¿
Interpreter (23:01) Mm Hmm (Thai)
Soy: (23: 06) I hope (laughs) I hope so, is just stop
MS: (23:15) Okay, thank you, perfect¿Carolyne would like to know some other things.
Carolyne: (23:21) I would just like to know if you could ask him about the survey work that he does.
MS: (12:34) Soy explain for us what you are actually doing here in the park what your survey entails
Soy: (23:39) Yes, now I try to find the answer about the human disturb in wild life and so I need to focus on the traffic in the park because the laws of this park (can't understand) in the center of this park is mean that effect from the laws may be temporary or permanent for big population of wild life to cross the laws if more traffic is maybe the wider population of wild life in the two areas and have, make a problem in the demographic of the wild life so now we forgot in the carnivore because the carnivore very sensitive in the human disturbance so the are, this area really popular for the bird watching, hiking, the outdoor activity, so it is really important to know now we made a problem for wild life on earth.
MS: (25:05) Paint a picture, okay, there are, the listeners in America are going to hear this and my best attempt will not work so tell me, just in terms of the wild life you can find here, do me a grocery list of what you can find in this park, tell me what cats you can find, what large animals, tell me what small animals. Because you need to make it clear to an American audience how rich this place is in life, so make me a list, give me a verbal list.
Soy: (25:41) I found 28 grass mammals in, in, in my area, so I got the tiger for the grass, leopard, golden cat, leopard cat, large Indian chiberd, common ¿.chiberd, bear, exotic bek-bear, hot badger, crab-eating mongoose, white dog, pig tail mecaw, stump-tail mecaw, carb-eating mecaw, elephant, gaw, tapir, deep, samber deer, manchak, thea manchak¿
MS: (26:41) All in this small are that you are focusing on for your survey. That's only a tiny, tiny portion of the total park. Is that right?
Soy: (22:53) Yay, so like¿
MS: (26:56) Everything.
Soy: (26:57) Everything, and we have endangered species in here also. Tiger, tapir, and the manchuk, really rare species, but use this area.
MS: (26:11) Ok, great. You're fantastic
MS: (26:17) I think Chuck might need¿We need to walk away slowly, gently, quietly¿
Ambi: (26:21) Sound of camera taking photo
Carolyne: (26:24) ¿take your photo first
Ambi: (26:30) insects, water in distance, footsteps
MS: (27:54) The ants were hungry
Ambi: (27:55) footsteps walking away, ambient forest sounds, soft insect cooing, distant birds.
Soy interview ends (29:29)
Ambi: (29:35) begins
Engineer: (29:41) Hello, say hello to some nature.
Ambi (29:42) birds chirping, cawing, squeaking, insect buzzes (31:00) Sounds get louder, wind. Loud insects, chirping
Engineer: (32:00) Little piece of nature here¿