ML 161008


Interview 2:05 - 52:18 Play 2:05 - More
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Dennis Suhre, Cecil Schwalbe  






Frog research discussion. Includes unidentified voices.  

NPR/NGS Radio Expeditions
18 Jul 2002

  • United States
    Pima County
  • Buenos Aires NWR
  • 31.55   -111.54994
  • Stereo
    Sampling Rate
  • 48kHz
    Bit Depth
  • 16-bit
    Equipment Note
  • 2-channel mono. One DPA mic feeding both channels. Right channel at -10dB from left channel.

Show: AZ frogs
Log of DAT #: 7
Engineer: Deputy
Date: July 18, 2002

Dennis Suhre head mic

1:30 heavy breathing - and walking on gravel - talking in bg

2:14 they just dug this one out w/in the last month

2:25 recently they dug this out bc I guess they didn't want it to go dry anymore - but they dug it out quite a bit - this one just filled - this is all new water w/in the last couple of days 2:38

3:00 Dennis - we are going to stand in the water and catch frogs! And that is what is going on¿they can see us if you have a light on us¿

3:30 we are hoping that we catch something

3:46 my name is Dennis Surey. Right now we have marked several populations of frogs out here in the valley, and this tank was dry when we marked all of these frogs and it recently filled in the last couple of days so we are going to go down here and see if we can mark some frogs that we already marked so we can find out the distance that they have moved, and then calculate rain fall versus how far they will go on a certain night. 4:12

4:14 it is imp to know bc we are trying to establish a population on the refuge of native leopard frogs and the bullfrogs tend to eat the native fros so we want to find out how far away the bullfrogs need to be as a safety catch so that we can deal with the problem before they eat the native frogs. 4:32

4:40are you guys ready? - frog be with us!

4:49 walking and spitting

5:00 op! trying to make sure you don't fall

5:11 big spit

5:12 walking and breathing

5:38 ooh it is deep! (said quietly) -
5:39- 8:01 walking in water, gently, heavy breathing (looking for frogs)
6:42 spit!
7:56 spit!
8:05 Ok, so I have got a marked frog guys! I have got a marked frog

8:24 - walking out of the water - towards people -

8:35 - yeah, it is actually

8:42 so did you guys catch any?

8:50 walking out of the water

8:54 ok, well I caught 3 and got a marked one.

8:58 one marked.

9:02 I am going to remark - I am going to mark these with a specific tank bc I don't know where they came from, but we have got them now. And then I will mark the one that we caught from the other tank so that we know (Cecil - w/that same mark) well, at least a portion of that same mark so that we know that it came from one tank and ended up here - so we can track its movements when it moves to another tank. 9:22

9:32 ok, here we go. What we have got here is a - he is missing his second right front finger there, and his second left front finger there. Which means that this frog came from novio which is a tank that is probably 2 miles from here - maybe a little bit more - 2 ½ - and we had rain Tuesday night and Monday night and this frog has moved 2 ½ miles across the desert and you guys just drove across it and you have seen how barren and dry it is, and it has actually moved across the desert and come here, to a place it can now colonize bc there are no adults. 10:16

10:21 this is a juvenile bullfrog, it metamorphosed - it still has got a little tail nub on there - so we are looking at maybe 2 weeks it has had legs and a tail, so now it has absorbed all of that and it has actually gotten out of the pond and moved over here to get away from predation and other pressures from the adults.

10:47 yes.

10:59 That is why we do 2 marks so that we can make sure that it is not some random anomaly that you say you loose this finger and you are only cutting one finger off. It could be random or it could be your marked - so that is why you make 2 so that you can make sure it is an individual that you can recognize later when you pick it up. 11:17

11:23 yeah. There is a theory that they can either smell the water and I have heard a theory that they can actually see the waves in the air from the water. I have heard that. I don't know if it is true or not, but somehow they know where the water is at and they get there. 11:37

11:38 it is amazing. For a frog that lives in the swamp to come out here and be able to do that

11:51 yes, grew up in a much wetter habitat then we are in right now

11:59 we have seen leopard frogs do it, but they are adapted to this so they kind have an advantage - well I wouldn't even call it an advantage bc these guys can do it too - seems like they are on equal terms as far as moving around.

12:23 yeah, I have learned that it doesn't take that much rain, bc we didn't have that much rain out here. So it didn't take that much rain to get this guy to move. So, it is getting scarier every time we pick one up at a new tank.

12:38 Well, we didn't have a tremendous amount of rainfall. I would say we had maybe half an inch or so (bug flies by mic) and this frog moved 2 ½ miles, and it was dry to start with so nothing was really flowing like it should have been normally, so there is tremendous pressure to -

13:07 yes, I have learned that since there wasn't that much rainfall but maybe half an inch that it doesn't take that much fr them to move 2 ½ miles across the desert, and there must be some kind of pressures at the other tank be it predation from their parents or lack of resources they can't get food bc their parents are there, that makes them want to leave. 13:25

13:33 I have learned to respect - it is very hard to think of it as a foe now bc I know so much about it (13:41) I understand that it is not helping us out any at all, so we have to learn as much as we can about it before we can battle it I guess.

13:57 this is a state trust lease. A rancher leases this land from the state and he put in a cattle tank out here so he can water his cattle out here.

14:14 Well, I am going to go over and mark them with a specific cohort mark for this tank, and for the one that has already been marked, I will mark him, so that I know that he has come from another tank, and that he has come here. So if I find him in another tank I can track his exact path that he taken to get where he wants to be.

14:40 yeah, we are heading to Yucca tank which would be a mile SW of here.

15:11 - it hurts, I think, but it doesn't effect them (in response to Jess asking if it hurts) as much as you might think it would¿.we catch them a week later and they are already healed up and they are out running around again¿they would probably eat it - they wouldn't care

16:03 I have. I worked Arivaca creek when it rained. So I started at the cienegas west through the cienegas and I was going through places where there were little ponds and such and then in btwn these ponds there is just open patches of dirt, and there were frogs hopping around out there, so they were trying to go somewhere. 16:26

18:49 did you!? So that is 50% of this tank 20;19 - that is impressive - so this is 2 ½ miles across drainage - so this isn't up down - this is across drainage here.

19:04 so that brings our 50% recapture rate out of 4 frogs - we have got 2 we know moved from a specific tank

19:20 At Novio tank the adults we had 100% recapture - with the metamorphose and the juveniles we were pretty low actually - so it is really impressive that we found 2 mark frogs here actually we marked prob 400 juv and metap. Frogs at least there are another 2 or 300 that we didn't mark at all (Bret - that we caught) yea. (Brett - and there is more than that even there). So it is an impressive.

19:57 yea.

20:04 Actually this is the first time this summer that we have gone out to look for remarked frogs, so this is very uplifting data - bc I was concerned there wasn't enough rain to get them to move, but now we are sure they will move at any sign of wetness in the ground at all.

20:37 the first year that we did this we had marked approx 1500 frogs and the recap rates at these other tanks were fairly high - low numbers bc you know, not all of them make it - it is treacherous to cross the desert as a frog. Our recapture rates were about 50% at these tanks. So the numbers weren't low, they were high, but the recap rates were high. So that gives us an idea that these frogs were actually moving across and the only thing that has really saved us so far is the drought. Most of these tanks were really shallow and they went dry. Bc if they wouldn't have these frogs prob would have colonized and we would have frogs closer to the refuge now then they are at this point

22:57 Dennis - they are here.

26:40 - the reason I came here first was that I was hoping we would get Loganita and Paria frogs bc our mark ration wasn't that high at Novio - the pressure at Novio is just tremendous

27:04 we can show them Novio

27:55 Ok, that is fine

32:41 well, I am glad we got some marked ones though

38:24 that's my Toyota, yeah. It is a '75 (JB - talking about his dad's car)

38:43 Dennis - ok, what have we got

38:55 so I am thinking we will go, ah, go with the LH1, and then we will go with LH4. and then with this one, if anything is recapped from Novio we are just going to cut off LH1. 39:18

40:01 talk to Cecil - Cecil knows them (re. to a frog joke)

40:24 we have a ziplock container, we put it on the scale, and zero the scale with that then we dump the frog in there and get a weight in grams for them. So he is 17 grams. 40:40

Sound of putting frog on scale - (very faint)

40:59 Dennis - now we take a snout ? length for the animal (good rustling w/equipment here

41:29 so with a length of 59 we know that this is a juvenile. Even though it is kind of obvious.

41:38 And after he done measuring it, I take it and cut the proper amount of toes off - and this frog is done

41:59 RH1 -

(talking with Brent)

42:08 Left Hind. One. Right front 2, left front 2.

42:17 Brent - I didn't realize that this is a recount. Sorry. Hang on. RH2, LH¿..

42:40 ok?

42:50 Brent - hold on. This is re-cap? Yes. New clip. LH1, right?

43:10 Brent - and then the process starts over again.

43;16 This is a recap from Novio. And it is 14.7 grams

43:29 some ambi of moving stuff around, but very faint.

43:38 Brent - length of 58

43:40 and we will cut off LH1.

43:51 brent - he knows, he knows!

44:17 ok.

44:28 Brent - this is a new one, right?

44;30 this is a new one, yeah.

44:44 16.8

44:54 LF¿

45:09 talking as they are clipping and measuring - btwn Brent and Dennis - mumbling

45:42 - Dennis - so this is a new frog ( Brent - it is playing dead)¿.13.2

46:03 we have to try new scissors out.

46:46 yeah. We are going to release them into this pond

46:51 ok, were is opie? Opie, this is a malta..??? Opie! (opie caught the wrong kind of frogs)

48;00 -walking, and some laughter (Dennis putting frogs back in water)

51:21 Deniis - packing up - good zippering, and shifting stuff in the back of truck

52:25 it is 23:51 (answering Brent's q of what time is it)

52:40- opie, you riding with us

52:50 packing up car

53:00 - taking off head mic

53;27 END OF DAT

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