ML 147673

AudioDateDownLeftRightUpCloseReportGallerySettingsGiftLanguageGridListMapMenuPhotoPlayPlusSearchStarUserVideo

Sound Effects :04 - 27:15 Play :04 - More
Audio »
More
Video »
Browse
species »
Birds, bells, domestic animals  

Age/Sex
Identification
Solicitation
Behavior
Note

 

 

 

 

 

Sound Effects 43:34 - 46:55 Play 43:34 - More
Audio »
More
Video »
Browse
species »
Tibetan chant  

Age/Sex
Identification
Solicitation
Behavior
Note

 

 

 

 

 

Sound Effects 52:08 - 54:40 Play 52:08 - More
Audio »
More
Video »
Browse
species »
Insects ambiance  

Age/Sex
Identification
Solicitation
Behavior
Note

 

 

 

 

 

Interview 55:26 - 57:41 Play 55:26 - More
Audio »
More
Video »
Browse
species »
Unidentified Tibetan woman  

Age/Sex
Identification
Solicitation
Behavior
Note

 

 

 

 

Local culture discussion  

Sound Effects 58:43 - 1:02:00 Play 58:43 - More
Audio »
More
Video »
Browse
species »
Mekong River ambiance  

Age/Sex
Identification
Solicitation
Behavior
Note

 

 

 

 

 

Interview 1:05:05 - 1:21:53 Play 1:05:05 - More
Audio »
More
Video »
Browse
species »
Bob Moseley  

Age/Sex
Identification
Solicitation
Behavior
Note

 

 

 

 

Impressions of the area.  

Interview 1:26:55 - 1:37:33 Play 1:26:55 - More
Audio »
More
Video »
Browse
species »
Unidentified Tibetan woman and man  

Age/Sex
Identification
Solicitation
Behavior
Note

 

 

 

 

Translation of Tibetan songs  

Interview 1:38:07 - 1:45:04 Play 1:38:07 - More
Audio »
More
Video »
Browse
species »
Unidentified man  

Age/Sex
Identification
Solicitation
Behavior
Note

 

 

 

 

Tibetan culture and land use discussion  

NPR/NGS Radio Expeditions
24 Oct 2000

    Geography
  • China
    Yunnan
    Latitude/Longitude
  • 28.4025   98.8111111
    Recording TimeCode
  • 46:51 - 49:00
    Channels
  • Stereo
    Sampling Rate
  • 48kHz
    Bit Depth
  • 24-bit
    Recorders
    Microphones
    Accessories
    Equipment Note

NPR/NGS
RADIO EXPEDITIONS
Show: YGRP
Log of DAT #: 16
Engineer: Bill McQuay
Date: 001024

ng = not good
ok = okay
g = good
vg = very good

1:00:00 (g) Bird sounds with distant cowbells

1:04:04 buzzing fly

Interview with Bob Moseley
1:05:12 What did you do this morning? We walked up here and did a couple of things. One was look a these song-sa sites where they prey and burn cedar at these small altars, and there's 4 of them going up this ridge above town. And it was kind of interesting, certain families use certain ones, the lower two, every day. And the upper ones are more for special occasions. And the most special one is up on a pass that overlooks the Ming-yong glacier on the other side, which descends directly off of Kawagebo and so it's a sacred glacier off a sacred mountain. There's a real good view of it from the upper one called "Yakka." Yakka means "pass" in Tibetan. Also looked at the vegetation patterns. Did some mapping of the vegetation along the way.

1:06:20 Just for the record, we are sitting on a trail overlooking the village Sin-Ong, below which we can see the Mekong river, pretty broad, pretty fast, and pretty green. And here a row of one mountain after another and Route 214, that's the way in and out. Pretty much the only way in and out. One end goes to Tibet, the other goes back to Duqin.

1:07:00 Something you said a few days ago, that you were having fun for personal reasons. What were you getting at? Well, I love the mountains. I've worked and lived in the mountains all my life, all my professional career. So a chance to come here to the greatest mountain range on earth is pretty exciting for a persona how likes mountains. But also as a conservation biologist, a chance to come here and work on the most diverse temperate ecosystem on earth is also pretty exciting place to do conservation. Those were actually two of the things that drew me to the project originally when they asked me to come over. The third thing came later, when I got here and started meeting the people we were working with and met a lot of really sincere people who wanted to do good conservation of both natural and cultural diversity. So the opportunities to do conservation here seem significant and real, and that sort of coincided with my interest in mountains and conservation biology. But we've met some really sincere people, at all levels. From me personally from the provincial level gov't to county levels and village levels. It's really exciting.

1:08:50 Now you are obviously a mountain person. The Tibetans are mountain people too. Do you feel a certain affinity with them? I suppose. It's definitely exciting to travel in the mountains with them, on a romantic, more personal than professional note. But, yeah, it is exciting meeting and living with those kinds of people. Done it in South America and enjoyed it there. Added dimension here.

1:09:37 What were your preconceptions coming here, and how were you surprised by this place? I knew enough about world geography and mountain geography and about the biodiversity of this area, but there were a couple of things that really hit me. One was how diverse it really is, compared to where I've worked in my career in the Rocky Mountains. The diversity here is really phenomenal. And on top of all that, in this place in particular, the Mei-li snowrange, has a particularly vibrant and robust culture that interacts with that natural diversity in a very intimate way. Their livelihoods and their religion are tied very closely with the land and their use of and conservation of the natural diversity. And that was surprising, the degree to which that was happening here.

1:10:51 Now your training is originally in botany, ecology. So you're used to going out into the mountains alone. Now here, you've had to become something of a cultural anthropologist. Are you learning something new? Yeah, this particular two weeks of field work we've been on, the main goal was to work with 2 cultural anthropologists who know this area very well, and see how we could essentially develop some methodologies of integrating the natural diversity conservation with the cultural diversity conservation. I didn't really have any training in that and I'm learning a lot all the time. And that was really the point of these two weeks. And it was I think pretty successful. I have some great ideas about how we can integrate those, both in terms of developing information management type systems to help decision-makers, managers, land managers to do their work. And so from that aspect it was really successful. And I'm learning a lot about how to interpret and map cultural landscapes as well as natural landscapes.

1:12:28 You come from a Western, scientific tradition, and everyday, you're seeing this extra dimension. I mean the relationship the Tibetans have with the land. Every site, every rock is holy. Has this maybe given you a new perspective? I...hmmm...in some ways. More how to do conservation in this type of setting. I'm not sure if it has effected me or my beliefs at all. Definitely it has given me a greater appreciation of how cultures interact with landscapes in a very intimate way. Something that has really just opened my eyes. Especially here in Mei-Li where it's remote, where the cultures haven't been effected by a lot of outside types of influences.

1:13:51 How will you describe just how awesome this place its to people who've never gotten out of Idaho or Missouri? That's going be a challenge. You know, you can site statistics, the rivers at this elevation and the mountain's at this elevation and it's 16000 feet in between, but that's still a hard to image if you're sitting in Idaho. Idaho is a state which is mostly mountains, with some very deep canyons, and so I can relate, to some extent, the Mekong river canyon as it cuts through the Himalayas, versus the Salmon River canyon as it cuts through central Idaho mountains. And it's twice as big, imagine a canyon twice as deep as the Salmon River canyon. And then at that point you have an average canyon here. And people who know plants and know forests can talk about how many plants occur in a given stand of trees. How many orchids and I talk to the garden club, they would know about lady-slipper orchids. And the fact that you can go to a very small stand of trees, a remnant stand, around a shrine and find five different species of lady-slipper orchids in a couple of acres is really extraordinary. And of course I'll have pictures to show how extraordinary the plants themselves are. I forgot you'll have powerpoint.

1:16:10 What are you going to tell people about Tibetans? I'm going to tell them that probably their notion of Tibet and Tibetans, certainly that I learned mostly periphery, because I never studied Tibet before I came here. Anyways, everything they know is probably way simplified and wrong. Tibet as a culture is more diverse than I ever imagined. The one example here, between the Yangtze and the Mekong there are two very different dialects of Tibetan and they can't always understand each other, and it's just over the ridge, (machine noise/distortion here) let alone all of Tibet, from the far north to the slopes of the Himalayas. Very diverse...(cut out) 1:17:04

1:17:15 Okay, back in business...

1:17:24 There was something else you were going to tell them? Oh yes, just how diverse Tibetans really are, just in terms of language and culture and religious practices. Political ideologies, for that matter. It's a very diverse place. I work here in just one small region of Tibet, and the diversity here is immense. And the example of the language, from the Mekong valley to the Yangtze valley, different dialects of Tibetan, which are way different from Lahsa.

1:18:05 If you were to take away one big personal lesson from this experience, what would it be? So far, the biggest lesson I've learned is about, coming from a United States background is the social, cultural context in which you do conservation in a place like Tibet, in a place like the Hangduan mountains of eastern Tibet. That is what I'm taking away and it's what's challenging me the most about how we're going to do a conservation project in the Mei-Li snowrange.

1:19:00 Could you be more specific? The Tibetan Buddhist culture is...the Tibetan Buddhist culture is very intricately linked to the land, and they have very definite ideas about conservation and land use and many times those can overlap to a large degree with the natural diversity conservation that we would ordinarily do in the United States. So that link, that interweaving of those two actually makes it somewhat easy here in some respects.

1:20:11 Any thing we missed? One thing I went into a little bit about why I'm in China, but I'd like to bring up this place, the Mei-Li snowrange and how exciting and interesting it is to work here, as opposed to the context of all of northwest Yunnan.......It was Kawagebo, so you'd better be careful...Yes, talking to us. But...this place is very exciting and I had a choice of working on a couple of different areas and when I first visited, I said this, this is where I want to work. It's remote, I like remote places in the world, especially mountain places. It's some of the most fantastic mountain scenery on earth. It's got incredible natural diversity, very vibrant and alive cultural aspect to it. Pretty exciting to be able to work and direct a conservation project in this particular range of mountains. And so, personally, it's very exciting to be a part of that here in the Mei-Li snowrange.

1:22:03 ambi

1:38:07 So we've been 8-9 days here - Upper Yubong, Lower Yubong, here in Sinong, and Chela. Obviously, you've been here before, but what could you say you've learned about Tibetan culture and land use and the environment? The first impression about this area is the importance of culture for nature ???...the importance of culture for the protection of nature. My...the meaning is just the culture and the nature mixed so closely together here in this area. Because everywhere you see, people tell you the different names, mountains and forests and rivers, most of the su-sites are sacred. The sacred means it's cultural, not only something outside of people's life, but the culture is something inside of people's life. So this is first impression for this travel. And also, it make me think about what we should do in this area. Generally, for the protection of culture and nature, often forces to do things that come from outside world. But here, I think, at the River project, should do something to change traditional ways, to let local people to have more power to manage the land, and, how do you say, to develop their own culture is more important. So the outside forces can not instead the local people's idea. Can not replace the local people's idea? Yeah, can not replace the local people's idea. And can not replace the traditional way the local people have. One thing they can do is just promote and have local people to rebuild the ability to manage the land, and to...develop their traditional culture. Also here we found, traditional immortalization, we can find something to link them together...Tradition and modernization? Yes...such as for land use here. In every village so far, the people have a tradition, such as a community of family. Every family has one person to take a part in this group. And in this group, local people can decide what to do to protect the nature. So I think if we respect the traditional way, to use the traditional rules and values to match with the outside forces...bring into this area, to put them together, maybe you can do something that is better to local people. If just the things only to be decided by outside forces, I think the result is not so good.

1:43:00 And what kind of role would you, be? You're not from the inside, but you're not exactly from the outside. Would you be a mediator? You see, as an anthropologist, we want to play a role as translator, I can say something. Because for outsider people and specialist, they only come here for a short time, it's difficult for them to understand local cultures... can you say that again?...As an anthropologist, what I can play is just as an interpreter or translator of culture. Because we stay here a long time and can understand somethings, not all things of local culture. And we can help the outsider specialists have a better understanding of local culture.

1:44:08 Do you think that understand this culture, and the others here as well, that this is something the majority of Han Chinese are interested in doing? Yes, and one way is to have outsider specialists to understand local culture. And another way also can help the local people have a better understanding of outsider culture. I think the two values, when two values meet, just as the sun and the moon meet, if someone can do something to help them understand each other. And the modalization and tradition can match much better.

1:45:03 Thank you...So for that we should actually pull the left side and do it mono..

Close Title