ML 147643


Interview :25 - 1:20:21 Play :25 - More
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Richard Carstensen  







Landmark trees; Richard Carstensen  

Interview :25 - 1:20:21 Play :25 - More
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Sam Skaggs  







Landmark trees; Sam Skaggs  

Environmental Recording 1:20:41 - 1:21:45 Play 1:20:41 - More
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Early morning ambi near water body  








Environmental Recording 1:21:54 - 1:40:21 Play 1:21:54 - More
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Early morning ambi near water body  








Interview 1:43:50 - 2:07:26 Play 1:43:50 - More
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Richard Carstensen  







Landmark trees; Richard Carstensen  

Interview 1:43:50 - 2:07:26 Play 1:43:50 - More
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Sam Skaggs  







Landmark trees; Sam Skaggs  

NPR/NGS Radio Expeditions
21 Jul 1998

  • United States
    Sitka County
  • Chichagof Island; Tenakee Inlet
  • 57.83389   -135.42056
  • Stereo
    Sampling Rate
  • 48kHz
    Bit Depth
  • 16-bit
  • Sennheiser MKH 30
  • Sennheiser MKH 40
    Equipment Note
  • Stereo=2: 1=L, 2=R; Decoded MS stereo

Landmark Trees Log
reporter Chris Joyce


:19 walking into meadow and approaching river we hope to cross to get to tree stand

:33 RC- a couple of little spruce trees we will cut through on the way but for the most part we will be out in the open

G :46 walking through meadow - some mike handling noise - 2:17 level change - louder

2:24 RC - nice mashed down swath of sedges and beach pea where a big animal came through

2:30 more walking - some mike handling noise , but good otherwise

3:40 RC - some of this brush is over our head and I can¿t see real far here I am kind of curious if the wind is carrying our scent ahead of us or blowing it back 3:51 let¿s flick this lighter and se which waythe wind is blowing - oh, ok

CJ - looks like it is coming from behind us

RC - not real strong - NOT GOOD - prob w/machine

4:41 CJ - so, when youare walking in high grass like this and a bear pops up what is the plan of action?

RC - well,we stay together, and if it stands up it is not an aggressive pose, it is just checking us out and we will - if it is at a medium distance say 50 yards, 100 yards, kind of wave our arms and say high and identifies us. 9 times out of 10 it will turn around and head off. Brown bears are really dignified. A lot of times they will act as though they don¿t care about you and go back to grazing and that is kind of sobering thing - to have a bear look at you and just stay put, but that is more of a saving face kind of thing, and inthat case we would kind of wait it out, let it do its thing and try and work around it. The ideal situation here is that we don¿t see anything and we go do our business and don¿t disturb anybody. 5:52

5:53 CJ - so, maybe we should make some noise at this point

RC - we are getting to the point where something could be laying down w/in 30 yards from us and we wouldn¿t know

6:08 SS - hey bear!

CJ - yo bear!

6:42 - walking in the meadow - some talking in bg - more talking NG

8:46 RC - these spruce are on our side of the stream - we are going to cut through those and the stream - there is a meander on this side (NG bc you can hear me in bg say yoohoo!)

9:18 SS - ah oh! VG through some bear calls and walking through meadow - rain through 10:12

10;13 RC - the whole we have been in one - a bear trail

10:29 at the river -

10:56 RC - a little off mike - you know what I am going to do is put my boots on w/o my socks and I can piggyback some folks if it is not enough current

CJ - you are not going to piggyback me!

11:44 RC - let me see what it is for depth¿.

12:50 good walking in river (maybe we can use this over and over for a bit)

RC - 12:55 - it is as deep as it can get - no sweat - no current -

walking in water -

13:19 RC - who is first?

CJ - I am going to come over on my own


14:10 RC - well, that was easier than we thought¿all we had to do was wade it and we are now about I guess a quarter mile through some meadow and maybe alder willow thicket to where the large trees are. The alder willow thicket we will have to see if we can¿t find a quick way through that it slows us down a little. 14:41

14:42-15:09 ambi some mike handling noise

15:12 - 15:40 putting packs on ambi

16:54 walking along stream - ambi

17:20 RC - well that was exciting - always surprises, never quite as straight forward as you think - we blast through about 200 yards of real tangle on bear trail - we were crawling on our hands and knees part of the time. We are finally out in the open and looking at our trees about 100 yards away. A couple of eagles sitting in a snag

17:49 CJ - how can you tell that they are the trees that we want/

17:52 RC - they are tall. I cansee that from here - I would say - maybe 180s the ones that we are seeing here¿..

18:13 CJ - let¿s go get `em

18:24 - walking - YO BEAR -

18:51 Cj - what do we have over there - looks pretty big

RC - yeah - we are maybe 50 yards into the stand and they are getting bigger as we get in - they were tall right off the bat. And as we go in they are getting taller yet and bigger in diameter. There is one off in the distance about 100 yards away

CJ - looks huge from here - you can see how it stands up above the rest in the clearing

19:19 RC - yeah. What we are looking for is a tree like that that has a mass of other trees around it that would give us some good board foot volume

CJ - so it is not just a solitary tree that is huge, you want one that is also has a lot of other trees right close by

19:38 RC - the optimum LMT score would have a nice big individual and a lot of volume in a 200 foot square around it - that is such a beautiful looking tree we might just make do with it - if it is standing out on its on and we loose some volume that would still be kind of neat

19:56 SS - see how open the understory is in here - and that is indicative of LMT stand which provides great habitat for deer in the winter

CJ - it is open so it ¿..

RC - this is a pretty good combination for deer bc it has got these big trees which intercepts snow, but a lot of gaps that allow for winter foods like bunch berry and blueberry. The blueberry is really tall here and I don¿t see that it has been browsed much which makes me think maybe it is not a major concentrating area for deer in the winter

20:40 CJ - but a lot of mosquitoes like it here

RC - yeah, they do.

20:45 SS - should we go back and look at that big boy?

CJ ¿ yeah let¿s go look at that

SS - or girl?

20:51 - walking to the LMT

21:05 RC - I think the first thing I want to do is check myself on the height of this big tree so we will get out a laser range finder and a clinometer and calculator and we will back off from the tree 100 feet or so and measure our distance to it horizontally with the range finder and then look at the angle to the top of the tree from that point and then we just need the tangent - the opposite over the adjacent - we know the adjacent we just measure the horizontal we want the opposite and that gives us the tree height. We have to do a final little correction for where our eye height is in relation to the tree base but that is the principle behind it 21:45

21:46 CJ - so you aim horizontally and then you aim the laser at the top of the tree and that gives you the 2 of the angles.

21:50 RC - we aimthe laser at the base and we use the clinometer to measure the angle - you could shoot the top with the laser and you would have 2 sides of a triangle

22:03 CJ - what is a clinometer exactly?

22:04 RC- clinometer is a small instrument you sight through and gives you degrees up or down at the target you are looking at.

23:33 by the big tree - measuring tree -

24:02 RC- ok, perfect! We are doing the 4 and half foot diameter -

CJ - the diameter - 4 and a half feet above the bottom of the tree

RC - above the general ground level - so we come up not from the base of the tree but from a little but farther out ¿ we needed to lower it a little bit over there¿

24:33 RC - Chris, you see how it climbs on the right?

CJ- yeah I see

RC- if we could lower that

CJ - couple of more inches?

RC - yeah, a hair - is that about where - ok

SS - (off mike) 66 and a half -

RC - a little bigger

SS - well no - not really 66.5

RC - 24:51 66.5 is DBH - diameter at breast height, 4 and a half feet - bc these big trees have a lot of flair a t the base for our score we take the diameter 10 feet off the ground - it is a little better indication that the true diameter of the tree to go up high 25:14

RC - calculating - SS in bg talking to Chris

SS - as I go around Chris you push it up with a stick (off mike, but usable)

RC - trying to take a picture

26:55 ambi of scene¿.talking in bg

27:20 what¿d ya got (NG)

27:35 SS - 58 on the diameter 10 feet Richard

RC- whatis that? (in the distance)

SS - 58!

RC - ok, I got ya

SS - ok, let go

27:46 SS - 58 and a half

27:49 RC - (in the distance) is it closer to 58 or 59

27:55 SS - closer to 58

RC - ok

SS - we go down low so we are not inflating our numbers

28:10 SS - so we took the height at both 4 feet and 10 - I mean diameter -

CJ - and uh - so so now we are going to take the height - is that correct?

28:19 SS - and then we are going to do height and that will give us a score on this tree - so that this is the landmark tree. And then we are going to go to the 5 points that we put up. Each of the 4 cardinal point s- north, south, east, west with a point in the center and then from there we will then measure the trees that are in and get a calculation of board feet - I mean a volume calculation of board feet per acre 28:47

SS - let¿s go get some gear - (NG)

29:07 ambi - with talking in bg - (no good to use behind scene) 29:40

30:42 RC - I¿ll give you the clinometer sam

CJ - I have got the stick

RC - you¿ve got the stick? Or how about a calculator - so, what we want is tangent here. bc when we read
our horizontal distance¿. 31:09 we are going to measure our distance to the tree with a laser in yards - that¿s all the laser tells us - then we - sam - will give us an angle reading with the clinometer to the top of the tree - clinometer measures angles. And if we know the angle to the treetop and we know the distance then we have the adjacent leg of our triangle - we want to know the opposite so the function we need is the tangent. Sam will give you the number first - it will say - it will give you 58 degrees you will punch in 58 tangent and then I will give you the laser reading¿.

CJ - how do I do that ?¿

32:07 RC - just leave that in ther e- let¿s say it turns out to be 30 yards - CJ- times 30? RC - yeah ¿.. 32:23 for tangent now you will type in just for practice 58 degrees now hit tangent - CJ - I have 1.6 - RC - now hit times - CJ - times - RC - and say it was 35 yards away - CJ: 35 RC: equals - CJ: 56.01 RC - 56 yards tall, now multiply by 3 and you get the

CJ: times three equals - 168 feet

RC - ok

CJ - alright -

33:06 RC- we need to back away from this tree at least a hundred feet to get an accurate reading

CJ - and you measure that on a laser

RC - right

33:13 SS - I will go back there 100 feet

33:47 walking towards them - talkng in bg - but faint

34:34 RC - ok, this looks like abut 100 feet. So now we need an angle to the top from sam.

SS - ok, I am going to measure right through that little opening and the top of those other trees and I get a measurement of 60 degrees

CJ - so I type in 60 tangent ok, I get 1.732

SS - times

34:58 RC - ok, leave that in there and I will get a distance with the laser if I can unfog it in this rain - 40 yards

CJ - times 40?

SS - times

CJ - equals 69.28

RC - yards

CJ - times 3 and we get wow - 207 feet 208 feet really

RC - woah!

SS 208 feet, really!

RC - now it is not really that tall though it is taller bc that is how high it is above sam¿s eye height so now shoot level over there sam and tell us about how high your - just estimate to the ground level how much higher is your eye then the ground level¿.

SS - I am trying to get to the ground, right?

RC - just point it - hold that line at zero - in otherwords you are using this clinometer now as a hand level

SS - ok I got zero

RC - no, you are just going to give us a visual estimate - when you are hitting the base of the tree at zero how high is that above the general ground level and if that is hard to tell I can go stand there

SS - no, I got it 36:20 SS - it is pretty close - I wouldn¿t add more than 3 feet

RC - 3 feet still puts it at 210

CJ - right - 211 actually

36:29 RC - wow. That is a beautiful tree

CJ - how big is that compared to your other landmark stands?

36:34 RC - we have measured 30 stands now and I think we have had 200 footers in maybe 5 of them? Something like that. For height this is really outstanding

CJ - how abut age - any idea how old it might be?

RC - my sense of this so far - and maybe I will change my mind - it looks kind of like young old growth - maybe 300 years, something like that. It is very pure spruce. The biggest trees are all one species. Spruce tends to pioneer these river side sights. Isn¿t a lot of hemlock. Isn¿t a lot of dead wood yet. I think it is just achieving old growth status 37:13

CJ - what are you going to call this place?

RC - boy. We are going to have to think on that one - head of tenakee inlet - but we can be more creative - it is stand number 30

SS - deserves more than a number

37:32 CJ - so now we measure the rest of the trees

RC - right - we have already laid out 5 points that are spread out through a 200 foot square. Each point 75 feet from the next. And from each of those we will take a little gage - a cruisers crutch that tells us all the trees over a certain size that we need to measure. We will spin a complete 360 degree circle to each of our 5 points - every entry will measure the height of that. And then we will need to run that height through a volume table and it will give us - when we are all done - the gross board feet of the acres surrounding our big tree 38:13

CJ - ok let¿s do that

SS - ok, let¿s go stand by one of our flags - let¿s do that corner first so we can work back

RC - this corner

SS - back the way we came here

38:23 walking around - talking - off mike(talking as he walks away): RC - you guys might want to stand
here - ¿¿.

39:10 - RC- what we are going to do (about recording the data) well we already got that big tree - say its diameter was 58 and its height is

CJ - 211

RC - ok, we¿ll round to the nearest 10 feet so we will call it a 210 footer and we come over here and read across to 210 and the volume factor for spruce 210 feet tall is 491 - and enter that here

CJ - so it is 491 cubic feet - or square feet?

39:48 RC - it is just a conversion factor that we are going to do for every tree and then we will sub total those for the first point that we work in and it is called the 40 factor cruising gage which just means that the total of all of these volume factors times 40 is the gross board feet of the stand

CJ - ok

RC - say we get 2200 that would mean that would be an 88,000 board foot stand - 8800?

CJ - ok, let¿s do it -

RC - ok I¿ll get you started at the center point - and the three of us will stand here and you will enter data from over there bc you are going to have to tell us what is in and out and point at it 40:31

41:27 Cj - yo bear¿..

41:59 ambi of area through 42:49 - some mike handling as Marcia sets up mike - some rain drops sound like mike handling

43:30 - 44:27 ambi sound drops sound like mike handling noise

44:28 CJ - yo bear

44:32 - 45:32 ambi sound - with rain drops sounding like mike handling noise

45:55 SS - which one you want to do first? This close one?¿ok¿.that¿s a dead snag though, right?

46:57 RC - we are going to go in a 360 degree circle so we started with the big one and the next one will be that one with a crack, right? 47:13 we need a distance on that and you are going to do that

CJ - I am going to do the calculation

RC - and you prob will also have time to do this - 47:39 this goes in your teeth you hold it out at arms length and you are going to fit that - you are just going to dial this thing until it squeezes that tree right about at her head level¿it is stump height so if a tree has got a big flare like this - hold it up to there, but if it is a fairly normal tree that comes straight to the ground just hold it at breast height at 4 and a half feet 48:04

48:14 RC - you will just identify them after each on (referring to the trees that are ¿in¿)¿you may have to walk and put your hand on it so we know for sure that we are measuring the right tree

48L57 CJ - 60 (off mike) times tangent (now on mike)

RC - times 32 yards

Cj - time 32 equals 55.42 times 3 equals 166.27

49:13 RC - and sam, tell us about how much to add -

SS - 2

RC - 2 feet more

CJ - that comes to 168

SS - well actually it is 4 more


49:28 RC - now chris, what is your reading off that caliper gage

CJ - and we are reading the one with the crack in it?

SS - yeah

49:33 - 49:40 silence

49:41 CJ - opps - it is loose..can you read that?

RC - ok it is btwn the 1.44 and the 1.62 so let¿s call it 1.5 - now that times 32

CJ - 1.5 times 32 equals - 48

RC - 48 inches - so this is a nifty little tool we have invented - Sam interrupts

SS - whatis the next one going clockwise from that crack

50:19 Rc - but we use this little caliper - it is a dial caliper - and we match it to the size of the tree and we have a little conversion right on the caliper (sam interrupts ) which in that case - 1.5 times the distance in yards is all we need to know to tell the trees diameter roughly w/o wrapping a tape around it (at time NG bc of Sam )

CJ - a lot easier

RC - it makes it a lot quicker than doing the D tape on everything

50:43 CJ - so we just walk over here and do the next one

50:45 walking to next tree - RC talking off mike

Cj - which one?

RC - it is way off there - you may want to move more to the left

SS - ready chris?

CJ - so it is the one to the right of the one we just measured -

RC - way off there in the distance - look off and see which one is tallest and that will tell you which one

51:23 SS - that is 50 - Chris 50 - 50 tangent

Cj- 50 tangent - I need a distance to multiply -

RC - 48

CJ - times 48 equals 57 times 3 equals 171.6 make that 172

SS - 172

RC - so it stays at 170, now I will measure the girth of it with this caliper and it says 1.1 so type in 1.1 times 48 yards

SS - ok who is next -

Cj - 52.8

52:38 RC - ok, diameter 53 and height 170

SS - that big one to the left there - is it in?

RC - it kind of has moss on the left side of the base..ok, so it is prob going to be this monster fare over here - huh?

53:27 - walking around - talking in bg

M54:02 SS - 65 (off mike)

CJ - 65 times tangent

RC - times 31 yards

Cj - times 3 equals 199.43

RC - whoo!

SS - plus 4 -

CJ - that is putting it over the 200 mark

RC - closer to 200 or 210?

CJ - 203 - so closer to 200

RC - alright! Another!!

SS - who is next?

RC - I have to do diameter here - 54:36 diameter is type in 1.95 times 31

54:48 CJ 60.45

RC - a big one - 60 inches at 5 feet off the ground

SS - talking to Jess in bg-

55:23 CJ - 6 0

RC - distance in yards - 24

CJ - times what?

RC - 24

CJ - 41 times 3 124.7 -

SS - plus 3

RC - and now multiply 1.1 time s 24 -

CJ - 26.4

Rc - to the nearest - we will call it 26

56:35 - walking to next site

RC - that is a hemlock (referring to last tree)

MORE OF THIS¿..OK through

57:45 CJ - 66.45 - that is a big fat tree

RC - wow - 66

CJ - yo bear -

58:05 walking

58:07 RC I think this is the rainiest day I have ever done a LM assessment - and it is even dissolving my write-in-the-rain paper 58;14

58:15 walking talking in bg

58:32 SS - wait hold it - let me clear it - I have water dripping in my eye - let¿s make it more like well 62

CJ - 62 tangent times

RC - times 25 yards

CJ - times 25 yards equals 47 times 3 141

RC - ok so we will call it - what do you want to add sam?

SS - 2

RC - ok, keep it at 140 and now multiply 1.45 times 25

CJ - 36.25

SS - the big one next right? Yeah ok

59:19 RC - what was our height on that one 140?

SS yea 140

59:33 SS - ok, next one is the big tall guy

RC - ok - let¿s back up a little bit - that could actually displace our - look at that - what is going on there? What are we doing with this tree?

CJ - my goodness

RC - 59:46 hey - let¿s - holy cow

MORE calculations¿..

1:00:26 RC - oh - it is going to be tall -

CJ - 196.8

RC - oh!

SS - I want to add¿¿point to the base of it

SS - 4 feet

RC - that will put it at right at 200

CJ - we need the girth -

RC - what did I say - 32 - so 32 time 1.9 -

(sam talking to jess in bg)

Cj - 60.8 - another fat tree

RC- if the dirth is bigger than that one - then that is the landmark tree¿..oh, we blew it - it is out!¿that one is bigger than the landmark tree

1:02:36 SS - richard - this is the last one for this quadrant

RC - ok

SS - (in distance ) 68

RC - let¿s go and measure that thing and if it is in - then¿..

off mike - 213 - oh well, we blew it -

well the other one was 210 - so ¿..

CJ - that is a foot note, isn¿t it? -

1:05:31 SS - let¿s go to the center (off mike)

1:06:31 OMNIS - X Y not working¿¿¿..THEY DID NOT WORK - so wet - they couldn¿tbe taped - the cables - to be quite enough - cables soaked back to seinheizer 30 - 40

1:09:30 walking towards us - as she gets closer - RC etc more on mike - NG until

1:10:46 RC - 25 chris -

Cj - 154 (Sam in bg)

1:11:07 CJ - 38

RC - diameter 38 - ok

1:11:21 walking to next tree

Marcia - the foliage is higher than I am right now - I kind of feel like an ant in a giant field of weeds

1:11:49 - Sam - 62

MORE measuring (some with Jess in bg)

1:13:19 - ambi - some talking in bg

MORE MEASURING and talking

1:16:07 SS - ok now the big beautiful one that is all nice and straight grain -

1:16:27 SS - ok, the nice beauty in the middle - 60

RC - ooohhh - 60 times 32 - angle was 60 and distance was 32 yards

Cj - (in distance ) 166

SS - make it 170

RC - and then 32 times 1.55

1:17:06 Cj - 50

1:18:17 RC - any more

1:18:42 what¿s next?

We are done!

1:19:04 - measure the monster?

1:19:44 1:19: 52 - 1:20:13-1:20:20 drops hitting devils club leaves -


7:30 am sitting at lake - looking at it

1:20:43 ambi (fish jumping in bg) 1;21;08 good fish jump 1:21:37

100 yards from camp 1:22:00 aiming mike into forest - mostly hear us walking around gravel beach ambi - good (but quiet) 1:23:01 some birds - very quiet - some fish, 1:27:17 plane in distance -through 1:29:57

1:32:07 - squirrel ambi some other noise in bg - 1:33:20 - squirrel - with other noise in bg -

1:33:44 squirrel ambi - with fish in bg - VG - 1:36:09

1:36:27 ambi

1:37:25- 1:37;28 FLY

1:41:02 walking on gravel back to camp (the other voices are heard) through 1:43:47

DAY AFTER TRIP discussion btwn LMT buccaneers

1:45:27 SS - what did you think of that site as a bear site? I felt that sites that we have been in before that seemed liked a pretty high bear scoring area

RC - it will be interesting to see how that works out on this score card - this is assessment in flux. I just worked this out pretty quickly a week ago and it needs review by bear biologists but I have had a little bit of input on it. We will just try and quantify

SS - yeah - why dn¿t we take a stab at it

1:46:13 RC - well, bc these stands are w/in a stone¿s throw of a stream (¿ no good ) my bear habitat assessment has a riparian emphasis. Riparian means stream side. so first question would be is this just a head water trib with only coho which wouldn¿t score as high, or is it a place where there are also pink and chum spawning¿and then if yes to the pink and chum does it have fordable spawning ripples (Sam - yes) well we managed to ford it yesterday - so a bear could do it pretty easy - so that gets 15 points. Does it have accessible holding eddies - yeah, sure - that gets 10 point. Does it have logs or other fishing platforms low over the water - not a lot of it - (sam - don¿t need much of that - got those little deltas) where a log spans a stream that is usually a little smaller stream than this one. This one has such high flow in the fall that it flushes logs out of it - doesn¿t get jams and stuff -

Sam - all those tracks in that one little delta area there - they are just hauling stuff out there - we didn¿t see any carcasses I don¿t think the run is that high yet so they are not really hauling fish out of it yet

1:47:37 RC - so for 30 potential points for that we will give it 25 that is pretty good. And then regional uniqueness of run - is this the prime area of the stream in the region or is it typically of other streams near by or are there more imp runs near by? And it¿s prob the - as far as the in the watershed in the general region - I¿d give it the highest score for it¿then how far is our stand from a fishable reach? I kind of need to look at those air photos for that

SS - a quarter mile

1:48:23 RC - we were in such a hurry yesterday after that hike that we kind of just blasted into that forest and plopped down and did an assessment and didn¿t spend as much time as we should have locating ourselves. So fortunately with these air photos and maps we can figure it out. We took a bearing when we left the stand then we took a GPS reading when we got into the meadow so we can locate that and then go back on that bearing into the forest which should - appears to me should be about 2 or 300 yards from the stream into the forest. So the way this assessment works is that if it is less than 200 feet you give the above score in its totality . if it is 200 yards you multiply times point 8. If it is over 200 yards you multiply it by point 5.

SS - point 8 then - there are some fingers that come closer to the river than we were in ¿.

RC - let us be conservative and say point 5 - so 35 times .5 = 17.5 call it 18. Travel corridor - are there distinct bear trails within the stand - yes. Ok - and then another whole category with this bear habitat - it has been pretty well shown from the fish and game work that logging roads are a real problem for bears so I have a real problem. So I have a category in here on distance from a road. Is it more than a quarter mile from a road? Yes - is it - the highest possible score is more than 2 miles and we are more than 2 miles from any road - 15 points. How far is it from a beach - bc that would be access by people with guns into that forest - let¿s look at the topo map for that one - ¿¿roughly a mile - which gives it the highest score - there are prob a few hunters that would be willing to pack a hide out from that far - cover - are there day beds on an upland slope - immediately above the stream? (SS - no) bears seem to like a place they can lay down in after fishing - a place that is up a hill in sight of the reach that they are fishing in - and the odors drift up to them and they can hear easily if something is passing through. And we don¿t really have that here. that is a wide alluvial flat. But it certainly has dense cover so we will give that a score of 8. And then the other imp thing for bear habitat along streams is berries. And bears tend to like three species of berries we have here that produce their species in clusters that a bear could just take a mouthful and get 20 berries - the - salmon berry is kind of like that - it is a bunch of little berries in one, and the devil¿s club and the stink currant produce clusters of berries. So those are the 3 really imp ones. The way we have got it so far - if the canopy is open and allows for prolific fruiting and you have all 3 of those imp species - salmon berry, devil¿s club and currant you get the highest possible score. And it was. I was looking a round and it was a great mix of all 3 of those berries so its got 10. 1:52:33 how about skunk cabbage? Were we seeing much in there?

SS - yeah - it was heavy

RC - that is an unusual situation - usually you get the berries and you don¿t have the skunk cabbage¿how about w/in the stand itself - where there more than 10 plants w/in our stand -

SS - I thought so

RC - ideally we would be doing this right in the forest - when it is that rainy

SS - well, it was getting late too for us to get back - (NG - talking over this)

RC - we will give it the 5 points so you want to get on a calculator here

SS - yeah - go for it

1;53;10 RC - let¿s add 17, plus 10 plus 15 plus 10 plus 8 plus 15

SS - 75

RC - ok, and that is out of 100 possible points

SS - so pretty high bear habitat (NG)

RC - well let¿s get out this - I think I already have some filled in here for previus stands ¿.1:53:38 TURNING PAGES - wildlife habitat ¿our highest scoring stand was a 95 out of 100 that was the black river on outer Chichagof island. Really remote and really a focus for bears in the whole region. There is another one behind juneau that scored really high - let¿s see 75, this would put it in the top 10 out of 20 of our stands in value to bears.

1:54:17 SS - I think it is good for us to be doing this bc what we are doing is not only do you have LMT scores to compare from one LMT stand to another but people understand more the icon of a bear and the importance of habitat for bear and deer too. So the more we build this into our methodology I think it is going to give us a lot more interesting data to talk to lay people.

1:54:44 RC - there is more known about deer habitat then bear. It has been studies for 20 years here and we have a good understanding of the relationship of old growth winter habitat and logging of that habitat and the impact of that on deer. As we have done these it has become pretty clear that our stands are mostly stream side spruce dominated forests with plants like devil¿s club, and not as much blueberry, bunchberry and plants that are imp to deer which is why I am in the process of developing this bear habitat score (sam talks over the last few words)

1:55:33 RC - the deer score was developed by Matt Kirchoff, the same guy who got us started on this LMT project. He is a deer habitat researcher w/Dept of F & G and he developed what he calls a quick crusie procedure for area biologists who are evaluating proposed timber sale areas to see what the value of cutting - a certain cutting unit would be to deer in the winter. And he focuses on winter values bc that is the crunch time for deer. The summer sort of - deer can take care of themselves in the summer

SS - there is lots of food.

1:56:16 RC - the real problems are in the winter when things can really shut down on them. So he splits this score btwn the availability of forage for deer in the winter and how the stand deals with snow. Are there ways that trees can intercept snow and keep it off the forest floor¿¿ so it is half and half - 50 comes from forage score and 50 come from the snow conditions score. So let¿s begin by adding up the figures I got yesterday for percent cover for shrubs, forbes - and forbes is just a wildlife biologist term for low growing plants - and the 3rd measurement I took was canopy cover over head on 4 of our points that we were doing assessments on¿..(more on this)

2:00:33 SS - 37

RC- 37 out of a possible 50 points. That is pretty good for deer - compared to our other scores

2:00:50 CJ - do you often get a combination like that that¿s good for bears and good for deer?

RC - it tends to be one or the other

SS - yeah - most definitely - that is what is unusual maybe about this site - that it has both

RC - let¿s see how it holds up for snow conditions for deer ¿. Basel area¿¿canopy cover¿.. 2;02:31 our total number of trees was 30 but there were 5 points so we divide 30 by 5 we get 6 - ¿, a steep south facing slope is great for deer bc it - our sun is really low over the winter¿.and if the land is sloping and facing in to that southern sun it helps melts snow away¿¿

2:03:50 RC- so our snow melt score which is a combination of how steep is it how flat is it and what direction does it face is kind of a bust - we get a 2 points out of possible 10. So that is were the deer and bear needs differ¿.2:05:32 ready to add the snow conditions?¿.

2:05:49 SS - 73

Rc - yeah- I would say this does the best out of any LMT stand we have done at - proving for both deer and bear - 73 out of a possible 100 for deer and 75 out of 100 for bear

SS - it just confirms me that what we are doing is creating the uniqueness that every stand is unique - it¿s got something that adds to it

2:06:17 RC - let¿s just see - 73 plus 75 - ¿..74 - ok, the best we have ever done for combined deer and bear is 82 - so this puts us down at maybe number 5 for both - that is kind of arbitrary ¿¿we are not necessarily going to get our best scoring values out of our highest scoring sites

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