Geological disscussion; Australia; Jamie Burgess
Rosalind; Aboriginal school principle
Aboriginal culture discussion; Australia; Rosalind; Aboriginal school principle
Aboriginal school teachers
Teacher discussions; Australia; Aboriginal school teachers
NPR/NGS Radio Expeditions
23 Mar 2000
- -12.45 130.83333
- 2:59 - 32:46
- Milingimbi Island
- -12.1 134.91667
- 35:34 - 1:40:59
Show: Australia- School in Milingimbe
Log of DAT: #2
Engineer: Manoli Wetherell
Date: March 23, 2000
ng =not good ok = okay g = good vg =very good
Friday, March 24,2000
Milingimbe School ¬
MP -Principal (MP)
WT -Writing teacher (assuming this is a different teacher ?)
JE -Book publisher
[The teacher explains to Alex that they (clan groups) have different sorts of "dreamings"]
35:52 AC: If you can really begin to explain dreaming to your own people -to the youngest people who come and need to know about your culture -maybe you can explain it to my people, too, who are, well, we 're like young children coming to learn about your culture. Ken thought it would be a good idea and ...
36: 18: MP: There's ... sometimes there's restrictions on what we can say and what we can't. For example, I come from another clan group, and I can talk about my very own dreaming instead of other people's.
[SKIP to 37:07]
37:07 AC: If you could just explain ... what people are you?
MP: I come from? ? group and my clan is? Basically,? people are from regionally? ? . That's in northeast? Because of the mission, my father was ... My father came from? When the first mission's establishment of first mission at Milingimbe, there were a lot of people that came from that area because of the rations that missionaries ... they were handing out rations every day and the people used to work. So, that's why I ended up here. My father came and wed my mother, and ...
38: 11 AC: So, there was a mission here?
MP: There was a first mission that was established, and ... . [pause] Like I said, I can't talk about other people's dreaming, but I can about my self and where I originally come from and my family, and the roots of my dreaming -talking about oral histories¬what happened long time ago. How did the ... the significance part of the places -the dreaming took place -when and who.
38:57 AC: We're going to say to someone from my culture ... we wouldn't want to say ... Words are powerful and they have meaning. And so, when we say dream, we mean something different. We mean, you know what happens when you go to sleep. But I don't think that's what you mean when you say "dreaming."
AC: So, we're trying to just get -what is it that the ? people mean when they say "dreaming"?
MP: Dh, example I'll give ...
39:40 AC: Examples are always good.
MP: Examples like [pause llong time ago ... this was way back 100 years ago. My dreaming is a flag dreaming. And my people thinks about how to, like there was a ship, I think it was a Spanish ship that traveled from somewhere in Spain. And it ended up near the mouth of Guramooru (sp). That's where my homeland is. And the people¬the boat contains rice, alcohol, salt and anchor. And on the boat there was this Spanish crew. And probably what happened, my people saw it and they thought it was someone, a spiritual being, and they adapt themselves into that dreaming. They thought it was a spiritual being that came. So, now people in those days, they thought it was a person who gave them hope. And nowadays, they sing about the boat. They sing ...the song cycles have ropes like... They sing about cards. People on those boats used to play cards. They adapt themselves into that situation. And that became their dreamings.
42:01 AC: The? people adapted themselves to that situation.
MP: My people ?? a clan group. So, every time we attend ceremonies, there is that song that talks about that story.
42:28 AC: And that's dreaming?
MP: That dreaming? or dreaming about dreaming ... ??
AC: And what is the name of that dream? Is that the flag dream?
MP: Yeah. Flag dreaming.
Australia DAT# 2 -School in Milingimbe Dee
42:50 AC: Does the song explain why these people seem to be spiritual people ... or was it ' cause there ... ?
MP: Because there were fair, white? people coming to visit our waters, trying to get onto our land.
AC: What does white mean?
MP: European. Some, like for example, ? clan group, ?, that's? ? There are six clan groups, ? clan groups who have a wide? dreamings. But they name it different ... Every clan group has a different name to refer to a ? person when they talk about white person.
43:59 AC: Well, I hope those are all nice names! [MP and AC laugh]
MP: [aboriginal jargon ending with the English word, "tissue": obviously asking someone for a tissue. Sniffles]
44:21 AC: Would you like to show us the school? MP (blowing nose): Yeah. AC: ... to see the children
[Either Carolyn or Manoli says something to Alex] SKIP TO ...
44:29 AC: Can you just say for our tape ... say your name and what you do here in the community?
MP: My name is Rosalind? That's my ?? ? name -Rosalind? And I'm the school principal at __BCe in Arnhem Land, Northern Territory.
ng: [MP and AC discuss MP's cold, which she says she caught in Darwin]
Outdoors ... birds chirping ... MP holds dialogue (in her aboriginal tongue) with an unidentified person) ... AC and MP converse ...
46:34 FX -Sound of feet walking across ground ... children 's voices in background .. . AC & MP converse .. .
46:22 MP: ... About the dreaming ...
46:30 AC: We'll get a copy back to the school ...
46: 36 FX (cant) ... Sound of feet walking across the ground.
46:47 AC : You have a radio station? MP: The radio station is not operating right now.
46:55 AMB: howling sound -like wind .. . feet still walking
47: 08 ... roaring sound (sounds like the ocean) Becomes increasingly loud at
47:13; then wanes at
47:09 AC: How many students are here in the school? MP: 280. That includes? stations. Twelve stations. AC: Wow!
47:24 FX Conversation (aboriginal) with unidentified person .. . sound offootsteps on steps
47:37 MP: ? class. Middle primary.
47:41 FX Knocking at door. Sounds in classroom. Children IS voices.
48:07 AC?: Kah ... kah ... kah ... kah-poo .. . MP: Kah-poo (sp) AC: Kah-poo (sp) .. . water. MP: Yo. AC: Kah-poo. MP: When the first ? education started 9173 , they were focusing on language only
teaching kids how to read and write their own language. But, during that time we ... the community people, their parents wanted to see something much better than language -teaching how to read and write. They wanted more of our culture involving other aspects of ?
49:11 AC: Jander (sp) ... jander (sp) .. . ? ? MP: Goina (sp).
49:15 AC: Goina (sp), goina (sp) .. . mill (sp) ... mill (sp) ... MP: Mill (sp) is ?
49:25 AC: Mill (pause). So you have developed all these .. . MP: Alphabets ... alphabets ... AC: Teaching materials. Do you have ... and you have books that ... ? MP: Yeah, I'll take you down where the book has been published. And there's
some room at the resources book that have been published during the time. AC: All right.
Sounds in room .. . j\;JP talking ... footsteps ... creaking door(s) .. . creaking gets louder while MP talks to female teacher in English and in aboriginal language ... creaking continues ...
50:54 AC (to teacher): Can you tell what you did this week for us? MT: Pardon? AC: Could you tell us what you did this week in class? First, I have to ask you -¬
is it all right if we do a tape recording of you? MT: Yeah. AC: All right. Thank you. And can I ask your name, please? MT: ?? AC: And you teach the second and third? MT: Third .. yeah. AC: Yeah. And can youjust say what you've been doing this week?
MT: So far, we've been doing workshop ... ? workshop based on ? the shellfish that ... ??? most of the work is based on ... what we collect in the sea (pause) As you can see, there are some of the works that children have been doing on shells.
51 :57 AC: So, they collect the shells and learn to identify them and name them? MT: Yes ... to identify them. And they've also classified ...
FX: [squeaking door; door shuts]
.. . things that are edible and ?
FX [squeaking door]
52 :14 AC: So that's learning ? culture? MT: ? culture. Yes. [pause] And most of the stuff they do early 'cause they are a
bit younger. AC: Yeah. Not really writing very much. MT: Not ... yeah. MP: [INDECIPHERABLE] AC: Mah-thah, mah-thah ... What is mah-thah? MT: ? language ... language that we speak.
52:51: AMB -Sounds in room.
53:04 MP: [INDECIPHERABLE] ... similarities ... similarities of getting one word. ? can explain that to you.
MP: You. Most of the ? doesn't know there 's a name ? common name that people use -for example, ?? is a name of a ? turtle. Turtle.
MP: And most children doesn't know this .. . they know it by a different name. There' s three species of turtles .. Three species of turtles. All children refer to one name. They call it, but there's different other turtles. There's greenback? Greenback turtle is called guh-dee-wuh (sp) ...
Allstralia DAT# 2 -School in Milingimbe Dee MT: Guh-dee-wuh. MP: Guh-dee-wuh. This one here called ? or something else? MT: [INDECIPHERABLE]
54:28 MP: Oh, mee-uh-poona (sp), mee-uh-poona. Most common name that children use -mee-uh-poona. But there's other names for the same thing. And ...
MT: Which the kids learn in the classroom.
MP: And there 's other, like for example, there's different clan groups sings about this particular thing. And they try to --like they're taught to classify them into categories for which is ? or which is ?
55:10 AC : Because one group can sing about one name and the other sings about another name? MP: Yes. AC: Ah.
MP: And how the children are? to that specific mee-uh-poona in the clan group. MT: Hmm.
55:32 AC: Do you ever think it's hard for the children to have to learn two cultures at one time?
MP: Like this? ... . It was ... they just ? position to have a week of humor ... a room in school ... taught in school. So, we've decided to have a humor room going this week. It will continue next week as well. ?
AC: And what is it?
MP: Humor room -talking about all these things ... ? ... getting appropriate names and how sometimes --they learn how to cut them several sizes ... and the parts of the names.
AC: They already know.
Australia DAT# 2 -School in Milingimbe Dee AC: They're far ahead of me (laughs). So, you use the parts of names to make other things? MP: Parts of names. Like, when you cut up a turtle, this one particular name, for example. Melanie. Parts, Melanie. ? .. parts? MT: Say, for example, if you were .. .. [aborigine gibberish] MP: A person ? MT: You took people out hunting and you were their pilot, and if you caught a fish somewhere in the ocean and bring it back .. ? MP: ? MT: ? So you get. .. as a pilot, you get the neck part. There are certain -¬special certain things that people ...
57:38 MP: You've got to have an equal share of things. AC: Yeah. MP : Every parts of names -and who gets it. AC: Every share has a name. MP: Yes. AC: Yeah. MP: Like if there was three or four people in that boat who, caught a turtle, and they come out and cut it up into pieces, they divide it into three or four pieces. And every person have that particular -they are not allowed to take other people's share. They are ? restricted by what they can get.
AC: ? MP: Yeah. Humor (sp) room.
58:37: AMB (sounds in room, including noise perhaps made by a student) MT: [aborigeejibby] MS: ? [student probably is asking about Alex's identity & where he 's from]
MP: ? America ... radio station .. . ? Where do you work? National ... AC: It's called National Public Radio in the United States. MT: First time ... ? AC: Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. MP: [aborigeejibby] AC : We asked Ken to help us learn something about the aboriginal people. And he's talked to people and brought us up here.
MP: ? ?
AMB - Room sounds.
59:26 CJC : I think your room is lovely. Things --shells and things for the numbering. It's very unusual. AC: Uhmm. AMB -Sounds in room.
MT: ? Don't go to sleep. AMB -Sounds in room amidst soft conversation.
59:48 MT: Over here are the names of fishes which were divided into two categories. AC: Ah! Oh! MT: Yoo-reeka and dohr (sp)? AC: So the shells are divided by dohr and yoor-reechuh? So is everything ... MP: So is everything else in ? ... Same as people. Birds, almost everything else. AC: Now, can I just ask you to explain one thing here? (MP and MT laugh)
1 :00.15 AC: This is easy, I think. If I have one shell, say this shell there --Now would that one shell have a dohr name and a yoor-reechuh name? Or would that shell either be yoor-reechuh or dohr?
Dee MT: Just one. AC: It's just --it's one or the other. Okay. So its name is either dohr or yoor¬
reechuh. MT: Uhm. AC: Yeah. Okay. MP: ? how knowledgeable the people are. We need to divide them into those
two categories -that? I was talking about. If you've got the knowledge passed on by your older sisters or your mother or father, straight away they recognize it ... the children recognize whether it is yoo-reeka or dohr.
AC: All right. Thank you. Thank you.
1:01 :28 AMB -squeaking door .... Outdoors .... Voices of MP and school children. Footsteps on wood or some other hard flooring.
1:01 :54 MP: We' ll go down to the LPC.
1:01:56 AMB -Footsteps .... Squeaking door .... Walking down steps ??? ... child's voice
1:02:12 AMB -Noise in background (audio problem??) ... child 's voice
1 :02:20 MP: These strips. These strips are made out of Pandanna's (sp) Tree. And Pandanna' s is yoo-reeka and ah-doo-ah. AC: Huh? So this basket is .. ..
MP: Ah-doo-ah. AC: doo-ah.
1 :02: 35 AMB -Background noise is louder .... Voices of j\!JP and others.
1:02:47 MP: Gwendolyn! Bring in a ? for lunch. [aborigeejibby] .... This is Gwen? She's the teacher linguist. She's the? in this section. ?
AC: I'm Alex Chadwick, a reporter from the United States -a radio reporter.
And these are the people who .. ..
Australia DAT# 2 -School in Milingimbe
Dee MP: Radio reporter -National-American all the way. [aborigee jibby] ... dreaming .... You know, dreaming .... ? ?
1 :03:45 AC: We've come to your school because we thought that ... Because you teach your culture here to very young children, we thought maybe you could explain something to people who are really starting out on ... don' t know anything [chuckles]. We do'n' t know anything.
MP: Gwendolyn! ?? For example, this emblem that they 're using on our school's letterhead and? are books like this that have been published --? with the activity books.
AC: Oh, yeah.
MP: You remember?
MP: That's Humor (sp) language. Choora (sp) means book.
1:04:39 FX -No ise. Turning pages o/book.
MP: ? They learn about Humor seasons too at the back of the book. When certain foods or fish available -what time of the year. And they know the signs. Like for example, water and clouds. Water and clouds -that means it's? season --the season of plentiful where there's lot offish, turtle. Good hunting. ? (sniffles) Good hunting seasons. [gibberish to a fellow Aborigine, who responds] .. . In the beginning, dreaming? .. This red group traveled from a place called dalling. [gibberish to another Aborigine] .. . ? It's? ? looks for another place where he can create a place for him to settle down.
1:06:31 AC: A home? He wants to make a home.
MP: Yeah. He wants to make a home. He traveled from Dalling and came up to Milingembe. And this here represents a place where you can live.
OTHER PERSON: ?
Dee MP: ? ? Later, ? will take you over to where this area is -a most significant place where old people come to? ? a culture? like ?
1:07:09 AMB -Noise, including aborigee jibby
1 :07: 14 -1:07:45 FX-Exchange of Aborigee jibby [good ifAlex 's voice can be cut from background).
1 :07:46 MP: She's doing -now writing up a story. ? ? There's? and the kids came up with the story.
WRITER-TEACHER (WT): The children give me the story and I'm writing for them. And now ...
MP: And she transcribed ...
WT: I'm typing the story to make .... ? pick this up in the classroom and we go there. You don't mind if we go there?
AC: Is this a story you can tell us?
AC : Oh, okay.
1:08:19 WT: It's about ... It's a made-up one. It's not real. We want the children to use their imagination. So, it's? It's in the language. And it's called?? --How the white cockatoo got about --how the white cockatoo was found in that particular area or place. And it's --we're looking at a topic called RA Y-pyoo-dee (sp), which is discipline. And it's RA Y-pyoo-dee in our language. And it relates to the topic of the story. They created the story by telling that there were two young children who were disobedient and not listening to the older, elderly person in that story that was telling them about two water holes --that one of the water hole was the other children and other people allowed to drink that. And the other one was only drank by elderly people -gray¬haired people -and because those two children -boys -weren't listening to what that older elderly person was telling them, they didn't get the story. And the following day, they went out hunting to find ? and so on; and on their way back, they came across this rainforest that had two water holes. And one of them -they were really thirsty 'cause they had drank all their water, and they needed water. And they knew --they had a slight idea of where that sacred water hole was, but they didn't know exactly where it was because in the first place, they weren't listening.
1: 10:41 So the older brother -not the older brother -they started telling each other that there was water, and we need water. Otherwise, we'll die of thirst. And so, the
Dee older brother being -because he was responsible for this youngest brother -he was in his care and he was the older one, and he said, "Okay, we've got two choice. We either die of thirst. Or I try and drink this water. 'Whichever it is, if something goes wrong, then you drink the other. That must be the water allowed to drink." So, he drank, he drank, he drank and then he started ... his hands started shaking into cockatoo paws. And his arms starting changing into cockatoo wings.
1: 11:49 And so he started saying, "Yoka-yoka," which is the? term for Little ' Brother. "Yoka-yoka, yoka-yoka." And he started saying, "Nee-uck, nee-uck!" And that's the sound that the white cockatoo makes. And it's usually the term for white cockatoo in ??? "Nee-uck, nee-uck! Yoka-yoka! Nee-uck!" And the little brother started crying and he knew that he was no longer his brother. And that he has now turned into a cockatoo. And, in a way, that brother had saved his life. Otherwise, they would have both died of thirst. So, he knew which drink was drinkable. So, he drank that water from that water hole and went home and told his momma the story of what had happened. And it's related to the topic we're teaching, which is called RAY-pyoo-dee in? And ballander (sp) --English term, it's discipline. YOU HAVE TO LISTEN SO YOU'LL KNOW WHAT TO DO. And it's really good because it came from the children,
1:13:09 AC: That's an amazingly good story to come from some children,
AC: That's wonderfuL
WT: Yeah, It started off by saying we've got to see where the scene is, where the setting will be --the plot and what the problem is, and who the characters will be in the story, and how DO THEY solve the problem, And ...
AC: Have they done pictures for this story?
WT: Yes, it's upstairs. If you don't mind, I'll show it to you.
AC: Oh, we'd like to see them.
13:35 -114:00 AMB -Sounds in room, including conversation and laughter.
14:00 -1: 14:16 [Manoli and Carolyn converse]
1 : 14:16 WT: And so I did this --create this for them ...
AC: Oh, yeah ...
WT: ... so that they have a bit of written and --I don't follow the words, recognize them, the shapes of the words. Having a go at writing.
AC: Oh, yeah?
WT: And they come and I proofread, and they go back and do their final draft. And they break these words into syllables.
AC: Oh, yeah. WT: So all that stuff is -we try and mix both ways. AC: Now they started doing -mixing both ways in 1973, yes?
WT: Ah oom yeah. AC: Yeah. So you must have been a student then. WT: Yeah. [laughs] And ? actually one of my favorite subjects.
1: 15: 17 AC: What grade were you in when they started teaching ...
VOICE IN BACKGROUND: Second grade.
WT: Second grade. VOICE IN BACKGROUND: Primary. WT: Primary when they -that? started.
AC: Yeah. You were ... WT: ? the same age -4 or 5 or 6 or 7. Grade 4 or 5, 6, 7.
AC: And what did it mean to you when they started teaching?
1 :15:37 WT: It's very important to learn our language because we've got to try and
maintain that language. Othenvise, we'll just lose it all [pause] because sometimes there's ...
VOICE IN BACKGROUND: Influences.
WT: ... influence -a lot of influence around the community because this is not just the only place on this pranet. There are other places as well.
AC: But when you were a student in school ... so, you have to go learn everything that the other children are learning -and all the other Australian children are learning is one thing.
WT: Yeah. AC: And then you have another whole subject that you have to learn. WT: Yeah. And it's --sometimes it's through Nyangumarta (?sp) that you'can understand English.
AC: Oh. So, it's, maybe it's a help. I wonder if, when you were a student, when you were just a girl, just young girl and suddenly they started doing this, if you didn't think it's not fair that we have to learn two things .. .
BACKGROUND VOICE: English.
AC : ... and the other ...
WT: And the other.
AC: ... and the other --that it seems like so much work for you.
WT: No. Actually, I like --Well, actually, this is just me. I like learning a lot of
new stuff. AC: Yeah.
1: 16:56 WT: And maybe one day? Nyangumarta maybe they -it was good that they introduced it because we've got Nyangumarta --a Nyangumarta child won't understand the concept of English or what is taught in English because through Nyangumarta they have to learn what's being ~aught in English.
AC : So, you really have to learn ? in order to learn English? WT: Yeah. AC : And you learn to write in ?, then it's easier to learn to write in English. WT and VOICE IN BACKGROUND: Yes. WT: It gives you the skills to learn the next language. AC: Thank you. WT: Thank you.
1:17:50 Chatter. AMB -Sounds in room. Manoli (?) asks about the "Ls 1J
1: 18:57: CJC: Are you asking about the different "L's"? ?MW and WT: Yes. CJC: I was wondering about the different "L's" also. WT: That is "ah". That's "A". It's even got the alphabet in English. But now,
we've got "A's" with what we call the "E's". And they're long. That "A" is long. I'll show you."
1: 19:21 [SOUNDS OF CHALK ON BOARD AS WT SCRIBBLES} WT: In English, there are five vowels. CJC: Yes. WT: In Nyangumarta, there are six. This one is long, and this one is short.
And they are (do it in a different color) -Long is "aah". The children know. They have to learn this before they read and write. Not before -they have to learn this so that it can enable them to read and write in Nyangumarta. "Aah" -with those "E's" -That's, it's a long sound --"aah". And the short one is "Ah". And "I" is short. "Ih" --sometimes in English, you have "ih" and "eye". But in Nyangumarta, it's only "ih" short. And the opposite for "eye" is "ee". We have in English "ee" and "eh". But in Nyangumarta, it's only "ee" -it makes long sound. And "0" is "ohh".
CJC: Ohh. WT: Ohh. And "U" is "uh". CJC: Uh. WT: Ah -ee -ohh. CJC: Ah -ee -ohh. WT: Ah. CJC: Ah. WT: Ee.
1 :20:54 CJC: And the "L's"?
WT: And the "L's" -they're called retroflexed. Your tongue ... [laughs] ... Your tongue -this is how you pronounce it: "Ull" --your tongue goes up. "Ull". Yeah. The retroflex D -"duh". Your tongue goes up.
CJC: Duh. WT: Yeah. Duh. CJC: And could you say the word?
CJC: Does it mean foot?
WT: And we don't have words that start with the vowels in Nyangumarta.
We'll hear though.
1:21:34 MW (in background): And the other "L" is just like ... ? WT: It's the normal "L" as in the English words.
WT: Yep. Lippa-lippa is canoe -as you can see it on the picture. And this one -this? end with a tail. We call it tail-end.
'VT: That's -we've got "uhnn". CJC: Uhnn. WT: Uhnn. Your tongue's still here, but uhnn. CJC & MW: Uhnn. WT: Uhnn -Mul-Ien-dehr (sp), which is the moon. MW: Ooh, how do you say that word again? WT: Mul-Ien-dehr. MW: Mul-Ien-dehr. WT: You have to live here a long time (laughs). CJC: Are the students anxious to learn. Are they ... ? WT: Because their ? is okay, but they've got to learn the sound of each letter. CJC: Thank you.
1:22:42 -1:24:34 AMB -Silence in room
1 :24:42 -1 :26:33 AMB -Outdoors
1 :26:33 FX Conversation between male and female (aborigee jibby)
1 :26:57 AC: James, my name is Alex. JAMES: AHo, Alex. James E? AC : James? [female voice in background] JE: Yeah ... ? production ? AC: You delivered your production? JE: Yeah. This is the area we print books. When they 're ? we print them here.
MP: That is the man that prints all the books. Publishing all the books in here.
AC: So, tell me, what do you do here? JE: We print books for kids there in the classroom, and teachers. And ...
1 :27:55 AC: This is a language activity book? JE: Yes, language activity book. This is about ? ? That means ?
[voice of MP in background]
JE: Season. MP: Dry ... dry season. JE: Seasons. This is ...
MALE VOICE IN BACKGROUND: 4 seasons. JE: We have .. , MALE VOICE IN BACKGROUND: 4 seasons.
JE: 4 seasons.
MP: ? JE: ? That's in the dry season. AC: Yeah.
JE: ? That's in the wet season. ? ? is this time now. MALE VOICE IN BACKGROUND: ? We're doing our ? now.
1:28:41 JE: Beginning of ? And this is the time we have a lot of seafood that we can eat ... MP: .. . that is available.
JE: ... that is available. MALE VOICE: ?? to harvest.
JE: Sort of like ready to harvest, you know. Turtle meat is ... taste good this time. You know, maybe real dry season taste is a little bit not all right. AC: Yeah. JE: But this time now, it's all right. And shellfish -oysters. ? bush. MP : Yams. JE: Bush ... yams. Bush yams. ? this time now ? got a lot of ? real delicious. AC: Yes.
1 :29:38 JE: You know. And the other season is ? That's sort of like winter down south. Winter time -remember? Down south. MP: We have? every morning. It's cold at night. And early mornings. AC: What is it -how cold is ... ? MP: ?? JE: ?? AC: Fog? JE: Yeah. That's ... ? Foggy in the morning. And it's a little bit chilly at night,
you know. Yeah, ? at night. Heavy dews? up. MP: ? up grass.
1 :30:25 JE: And we have turtle eggs. That time, you know, the turtle lays eggs. And we can even see little eggs. We? see little eggs. We don't get all of the eggs, but just a little, you know.
AC: You don't take all of the eggs? JE: No. We love some, you know. MP: ? JE : And mud crabs. ? season. You know, like winter down south -that time
now. Now, the turtle mud crab's heavier with, you know, meat.
MP: Lot of meat. JE: Lot of meat and heavy and good. And mangro worms.
1:31:14 AC: Mango worms? JE: Mangro worms. AC: Mangro worms? JE: Yeah. We eat 'em. You know. AC: How big is a mangro vorm? JE: Bigger --a good size one is about ...
MP: Big as your arm. JE: Big as my thumb -about this big. MP: Twice as big as ... AC: As thick as two fingers together. JE: Yeah. And 'bout this long.
AC: And about a foot and a half long. JE: You know. AC: Yeah.
JE: That's 'bout big as my ...
1:31:41 AC: How do you -how do you eat them? You cook them?
JE: No, we just ... MP: You get into trouble when you cook them. JE: Yeah. Because it's sort of ? MP: ?
Dee MALE VOICE IN BACKGROUND: It's two type of mangro --?? JE: Yeah. That's true. Right. ? is little one. ? this size. AC: Yeah. JE: And? will cook that one. But bigger one, you can't cook. You just eat it. MP: Straight away. JE: Straight away. You know. It's? mangro worms, they make a ? in the mangro tree. AC: Yeah.
1:32:19 JE: You know. And you chop it and then pull it out. You have to be careful; othenvise, they break. AC: Yeah. JE: You know, you know. But if it breaks, you still eat it. But there's a little bit of mud in them. But we can eat the mud sometimes. I'm allergic. MP: ? AC: You're allergic to them? JE: Yeah. AC: You're a lucky man. JE: I used to eat, but now. Not any more. ? ? We -now, we burn grass. MAN IN BACKGROUND: ? JE: Yeah. ? We burn the grass. ? MAN IN BACKGROUND: Lizard. JE: Lizard.
MAN: ? Porcupine. JE: Porcupine.
1:33:18 JE: We call it bum-up season, that time. For that reason we bum it up.
MAN: But there is more .. .
JE: ? make a fire for that special reason.
1:33:30 MAN: It's more behind that than only burning grass. It's more. It goes with our souls and goes with our story too. It's more than burning grass ? and sometimes it's harvesting. And what do we do now? We get rid of the brown grass ready for next season. And that's what a lot of white people don't understand.
JE : And it 's true for wallabies too. They eat fresh ? grass and even when we bum up the grass, they eat ? worms or ? insects.
JE: You know.
1 :34: 19 AC: Are there wallaby around here?
MAN: Yeah. JE: Yeah. MAN: Wallaby. AC: Running around .. . MAN: Running around with the kangaroos. AC: Yeah. Right in the forest around here. MAN: Since we've gone back to the burning of the fire --It' s only certain people
allowed to bum ? in their?? And if I bum someone else's grass, I'll be in big trouble. ? You have to.
1 :34:45 JE: And you should know we always bum the grass at the right time. MAN: Right time.
JE: Right time. Not early when it's little bit dry, I mean a little bit damp -the grass, but just the right time.
MAN: Right time. ? ? Right time. Every thing is burned. Everything is cleaned out. Everything is ? out, you know? Everything!
JE: And it's true if someone else is burning grass on someone else's property or without asking, they will get into trouble.
MP: Someone else's land.
JE: Yeah, land. ?
1:35:27 MP: That goes back to ? culture. Every individual ? belongs to a certain land. We call ? homeland. Or if you are close related to another clan group, you are responsible for doing that. If you're not associated with the other clan groups, you'll get into trouble if you do something [pause] which you are not acknowledged to do
1:36:22 Alex thanks his hosts. The man in the background mentions that it is important for Alex to know what happens when someone dies. The principal explains.
1:36:59 MP: ? people ? ? They've got a story ... some cycles have a history about ? --certain? people. If someone passes away, ? is a totem that belongs to that person. If your mother or sister, someone that has the ? totem passes away, the mothers are not allowed to eat that, or the sisters and brothers, until a ? time. Two or three years. They've got to wait until two or three years ? Then they can eat ? or any other seafood.
JE: Even now if someone pass away, ?? totem, you're not allowed to catch big ? during this, you know, couple of weeks that ? ? but the big one, you have to wait for a couple of months. It's sort of like ?
MP: We have a smoking ceremony too. If ? not ?
MAN: If a ? person dies, and another ? person, he or she can't eat that because they belong to ?, they' re a part of?, they are within the? Otherwise, you' re eating your own flesh. ?? my brother passed away ?? four or five years because I belong to them. That's where I come from.
JE: And people eat? bush turtle or fish right way and not wrong way. You have to cut it up the right way. And?
1:39:24 -1 :39:44 JE carries on conversation with ]vIP in aboriginal language
1 :39:44 MAN IN BACKGROUND: That's why we don't mix ? ? because we believe in that. We only catch baramundee (sp) But we catch baramundee in certain? seasons.
MP: ? season.
MAN: This season now coming up. We don't catch baramundee in the wrong season unless there are a lot of ballender (sp). Ballender is white --white fishermen and ? fishermen ... but they don't understand. They just get baramundee any time they want to come here ? in our river --fishing, fishing and?? They haven't got the idea.
1 :40:27 AC: Is it bad for the baramundee to catch them in the wrong time?
MAN: To answer that -you haven't got the riches and the goodness in that. See, that's why we' re waiting for this season now coming. This? season is coming up¬when the rain ? It's raining? That's when we start catching the baramundee --? the goodness.
AC: All right. Thank you.
1:49:57 -1:54:10 AMB Outdoor sounds: Walking; voices ofadults and school children chattering and yelling (aborigee jibby); motor vehicle