Glenn Shepard Jr.
Machiguenga people; Tayakome village; Location B
Interview in Machiguenga, translated to English; Machiguenga people; Location B
Interview in Spanish, translated to English; Pro-Naturaleza Tropical Rainforest Coalition; Machiguenga people; Location B
Glenn Shepard Jr.
Machiguenga people; Location B
Interview in Spanish, translated to English; Machiguenga people; Education; Location B
NPR/NGS Radio Expeditions
21 Oct 1999
Madre de Dios
- Manu National Park; Manu River clay lick
- -11.8413889 -71.4066667
- 3:45 - 3:59
Madre de Dios
- Manu National Park; Tayakome village
- -11.7277778 -71.6544444
- 8:55 - 1:58:38
- SONY TCD-D7
- Sennheiser MKH 30
- Sennheiser MKH 50
Decoded MS stereo; Sennheiser MKH50 Hypercardioid Mid Mic and MKH30 Bidirectional Side Mic through Sonosax SX-M2 mic preamp into Sony TCD7
NPR/NGS RADIO EXPEDITIONS
PERU - Manu
DAT 4 LOG
NG = NO GOOD
G = GOOD
VG = VERY GOOD
10:04-11:07 on boat going into shore
11:25 VG FX ¿ throwing anchor into water?
11:35 WM ¿ Hola! Talking to people on shore¿¿talk in spanish¿..introductions¿..laughter¿..
15:03-15:45 FX good movement on boat ¿ gettting off? Shuffling stuff around
16:22 ¿ people talking, children, Walter talking to the people
19:51 ¿ 21:01 boat takes off, in boat ¿ NG
21:11 JN ¿ we just stopped to pick up a translator bc we are headed to Tayakome which is a Michigenga village. We stopped to get a man who speaks Michigenga ¿he is Michigenga ¿ and his whole family got on the boat. We are off to our next place. 21:30
21:40 JN ¿ no we are headed headed up river from CC to a Michigenga village called Tayakome which is the largest settlement in the whole manu area. We stopped to get a man who could translate from Michegenga into Spanish and we will have another translation from Spanish into English, and the whole family got on! So we are big full boat and we are off to our next stop ¿ boat AMBI ¿ 22:33
23:16 ¿ 24:59 NG - lots of rustling around in boat ¿ bird in bg ¿
26:09-28:03 ambi ¿ on boat - bird (unusual in bg)
28:04 WM ¿ they are woolly (?) monkeys calling. These monkeys live on only this side of the river¿..
28:37 WM ¿ that¿s woolly monkeys calling over there ¿ shaking the branches, and this monkeys live only on this side of the river. 28:51 they are saying welcome ¿ probably 29:04
29:23-29:58 G motor start up (some talking in bg ¿ kids?)
30:17 ¿ 32:03 VG macaws
32:50 ¿ NG - on the beach of Tayakome ¿
42:43 Interview with Glenn Shepard
JN: tell us your name and that it¿s okay to use portions of this interview¿
GS: My name is Glenn Shepard and it¿s okay for NPR to use my voice in whatever way they choose.
JN: Why don¿t you tell us where we are and who these people are and what¿s going on around here.
GS: We¿re in Taya Come, this is a Machaginga village on the upper Manu river, and they¿ve been here since the since the mid to late 60s when they were contacted by the summer institute of Linguistic Missionaries who called them from all around different tributary rivers and set up a large village here. And the village lasted from the late 60s until about 1974 when Manu national Park was formed, and at that time there was some conflicts because the Missionaries were I think selling skins or something like that and the Park, there was a problem in the, there was also a government that didn¿t like missionaries very much and so they got kicked out, and they went over to the Comise river. And took about half the population of this village with them to the comise river, where they are right now.
JN: How many people are here now? How many families?
GS: It¿s not a lot of people I think it¿s around 85 or so, I haven¿t done the census yet, it¿s about 12 or 14 families. Most of the people live up the Yomiwato river, there¿s about 200 people up there.
JN: And what are you doing here?
GS: What am I doing here? I¿m an anthropologist and an ethnobotonist, and I¿ve worked here for about 12 years now, I mean on and off, and so I just got back and I¿m here to do a project on forest classification.
JN: Up here?
GS: Up here. And up the Yomiwato river. We did a preliminary study in 1996 and the people, the Machiginga knew about, well the people in Cocha Cashu who you talked to have about 15 names for different kinds of forests, and so we said, well lets go ask the indians, and they have about 45 names for different kinds of forest, and so we decided we were going to be working on understanding how they classify the forests and use it.
JN: Is there anybody here you think I¿m sure everybody¿s shy, but is there anybody who could talk to us a little bit you might want to help us with?
GS: Well, have you talked to - you ought to talk to the president fist.
JN: Yes! That¿s a good idea.
GS: The jefe.
JN: This is the school? Who built the school?
GS: The Peruvian government.
JN: That would account for the great big Peruvian government sign on the front of it!
GS: And the Dominicans help, they contribute, I mean once they got the summer, the protestants out, of course the Dominicans had to come in and help get the school going.
JN: When we go to say hello there would you come with us?
(walking through the room)
0:46:01 ¿ 1:11:00 ¿boring interview¿ (according to JN) with president, secretary, etc of town ¿ with WM
1:12:20 ¿ 1:15:03 talking in Spanish ¿ about antenna parabolica¿¿Walter (?) talking in Spanish ¿ people are complaining about what they don¿t have and what they need
1:15:12 Leo explains what is going on¿¿
1:16:35 walking to the river ¿ NG ¿ dropping out and people talking in bg
1:19:49-1:20:20 OK lots of people walking to beach
1:22:43 JN ¿ let¿s say something profound and put him in the river
1:23:07 JN ¿ tell us what your name is -
1:23:09 in Spanish¿.then ¿ 1:24:12 his name is Modesta Chalco. He is w/Pronaturaleza and they are here ¿ they have been teaching the machigenga how to raise the turtle eggs from the beaches ¿ the beaches that would otherwise get washed away. This is the first day that they are going to be releasing them, and I am the first god father of a turtle. You are the 2nd god father of the turtle and you are the 3rd god father of the turtle. He is very happy that the mayor of this region is here ¿ happy we are here to witness the first turtle release. 1:24:59
1:25:27 WOMAN speaks¿..1:26:38 (translation) she is also a professor in the school and she is the president of the commission ¿ of the turtle commission. And they have been getting training for several yrs now on how to manage the turtles. And this is the first time they are going to do it themselves. And they go to the beaches that are low ¿ they dig up the turtles, they weigh them, they measure them, they take them back to an artificial turtle nest that they made¿and there they hatch them out and they release a certain number into the lakes and streams and certain number they sell to god mothers and god fathers like us 1:27:23
JN ¿ how does it benefit her?
WOMAN reply ¿ 1:28:27/ translation in ENGLISH - 1:28:48 ¿ well the money that you left to buy the turtles that is going to go into their fund to buy things and that is a help. But also when she got here in 1977 there weren¿t many turtles, and she is hoping that w/this project there can be more turtles for them to eat and more eggs for them to eat 1:29:13
JN ¿ why don¿t we put the turtles in the water!
1:30:00 ¿ here it goes!!
Releasing the turtles¿¿.laughter and talking as the turtle goes in the water¿..(JN ¿ that is what they call sustainable development!)
1:31:54 - 1:33:31
(children playing in background)
JN: Who do you think knows more about these forests, the people down at Cocha Cashu, or these people?
GS: There¿s only one answer to that question, these people. Yeah, the Machiginga know an aweful lot about the forest.
JN: Give me some examples of what they know that we don¿t know.
GS: Well, when I started on this project of the forest classification, the people at Cocha Cashu had about 12 to 15 names for different kinds of forest and I came up here with Doug Yew, the ecologist and we did a 3 month just a preliminary survey, and they had 45 names for different kinds of forest around one community, so that gives you an idea, it¿s about three times as many names as the biologists have.
JN: And what in your opinion would be lost if these people were to go somewhere else?
GS: It¿s where they grew up! It¿s where they have their stories they have memories, and all that would, they¿re protected in a sense from outside influences, if they were to leave the park they would all end up working in gold mines or cutting lumber, and all that, their stories and their knowledge would very quickly just be gone.
JN: Is there anything special that the Michiginga think about turtles?
GS: Turtles, they love to eat their eggs¿ I do to, their really good.
JN: So we¿re not talking here about the turtle god, we¿re talking about green eggs and ham.
GS: No, no turtle god.
Interview with Schoolteacher
1:33:51 schoolteacher (Glenn translates) ¿ my name is Maro and I am the school teacher here¿¿Spanish¿..(child crying in bg) ¿ and other commotion) ¿we live here very nicely, very tranquilos, but we are little bit isolated being here in the park and we feel like we have the same human rights as everyone else living outside the park and we need help to obtain those goals and we know a lot about ¿ we are naturally conservationists - we know a lot about the forests but we need help from researchers and institutions so that we can apply this knowledge and learn more and scientific methods and capacity bldg and we are happy when people like you visit us bc you can spread the word that we are here ¿ and we are happy when researchers come to visit us but we are even more happy when people who come to visit us don¿t just take the knowledge and go with it somewhere but they bring it back in some why even if it is not money but knowledge that is left here for the community. 1:36:50 and regards to Bill Clinton.
1:36 55 JN - Only one question. In the US, people don¿t live in parks. I think a lot of people in the US don¿t realize it is diff in diff parts of the world¿.
1:37:15 Glen (speaking on his own) ¿ well I think in the US, the whole formation of parks was all built around a model in which man and nature are incompatible bc Western man has proven very incompatible with nature. So whenever western man goes there is destruction. So the natural parks¿.these were envisioned as cathedrals of nature where no human should¿¿¿the thing they don¿t tell you about Yosemite is that they had to kick out all the Indians before they could set up the park 1:37:54 so here the native people have lived for yrs and yrs and yrs and there are still plenty of animals and there are still plenty of turltes/ so the more they learn from western technology the more they are able to destroy nature. But they do have natural techniques to use to not destroy things in nature ¿ it is our system that is incompatible with nature. But the native system I think there are ways they can live ¿ the whole continent was inhabited by people for 40,000 before manu park was established. 1:38:35
1:38:36 JN ¿ they are inseparable nature and people are the same thing here
Glen ¿ yeah ¿ yeah¿..
1:38:51 Glen ¿ I heard an interesting anecdote about this once ¿ Manu park was formed in 1974 ¿ and for 20 yrs no one came and told these people what a park was ¿ or why it existed. So finally in 1993 SADIA, which is a non-govt org and I sort of got together and organized a little workshop to explain to these people why you have a park and what is a park and so this woman from Lima came ¿ it was the first time someone from Lima came and explained to the people why the park exist. So this woman came and said there are these things called endangered animals and monkeys are endangered animals and turtles are endangered animals and this machiegenga guy stood up and I translated for him and he said - ¿wait a minute ¿ an endangered animal is an animal that has almost gone extinct, right? And I translated and said yup¿¿so monkeys are endangered animal ¿ right ¿ and he said, I don¿t know where you live but we have been hunting monkeys ¿ my father, etc have hunted monkeys and there are still plenty of monkeys. Maybe they are endangered where you live, but they are not endangered here. Maybe you should make some parks in Lima to protect the monkeys there ¿ we have got plenty of monkeys here. 1:40:18
JN ¿ thanking everyone¿..
1:40:56 ¿man thanking JN for coming¿..
1:41:15 ¿1:42:24 Glen asking for permission to use the tape recorded¿..yes ¿ permission granted¿.
1:42:54 At house of the translator ¿
1:43:16 ¿ 1:45:55 ambi ¿ at house ¿ nice birds ¿ people talking, baby crying, chickens,
1:45:56 ¿ translator describing different arrows ¿ This one is for small mammal different and this one is for big one- made from bamboo¿..this one is for the pigeons or juans (?) and this one is for fish ¿ it is heavy ¿ also this one is for fish ¿ to shoot the fish ¿ (JN: I see it is on a string and the string unrolls¿.)
1:46:51 JN ¿ what is that?
Translator - this is metal
JN- feathers ¿ what kind of feathers
Translator ¿ usually use the eagle or hawk feather¿.. Que plume esto? Trumpeter - ¿.(mummbling¿.) this one make him go strike (?) 1:48:25
1:48:38 Juan Rios ¿
1:48:49 Translator ¿ his nickname is Juan curaca
Juan ¿ si
Transl ¿ bc he has 2 wives and 7 children and the 2 of them are sisters ¿ they are supposed to be w/2 wives, strong, and good hunter bc the other way you are no allowed to support 2 families ¿ probably he is the smartest and fastest and good hunter also he has to pass a test of good merit when he is 18 yrs old. He needs to go into forest and they have to shoot the black spider monkeys bc the black spider monkeys are usually in the canopy ¿ it is like 100 feet above and they have to be really good to shoot at once¿.if they can¿t shoot they are not prepared for wife yet 1:50:15
1:50:16 JN ¿ so he must be a good hunter if he has 2 wives
Transl ¿ yeah he must be the best 1:50:26 ¿ he asks him something (to shoot?) in machiegenga ¿
1:50:57 ¿ setting up to shoot ¿ ambi of children in bg (John can write copy to read over this)
1:51:05 ¿ juan shoots arrow
1:51:28 shoots and people say ooohhh!
1:51:56 shoots the arrow ¿ people react
1:52:09 ¿ good shot (sounds good) ¿ a miss
1:52:28 ¿ good shot (a miss)
1:52:41 good shot (a miss)
1:53:06 ¿ shot hits tree
1:53:14 shot hits tree
walter describes what is being done
1:53:58 another shot
1:54:14 another shot
1:54:21 G VERY good SHOT ¿ hitting watermelon
1:54:30 ¿ 1:54:25 G shots ¿ hitting watermelon
1:56:55-1:58:15 VG shot ¿ sticks in tree
1:58:41 END OF DAT