ML 141237


Interview 1:00 - 45:16 Play 1:00 - More
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Charles Kauluwehi Maxwell Sr.  







Native Hawaiian culture and religion  

Interview 45:36 - 53:14 Play 45:36 - More
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Allen Tom  







Hawaiian Islands Humpback Whale National Marine Sanctuary  

Interview 56:31 - 1:05:41 Play 56:31 - More
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Charles Kauluwehi Maxwell Sr.  







Native Hawaiian culture and whales  

NPR/NGS Radio Expeditions
7 Mar 1998

  • United States
    Maui County
  • Kihei; Hawaiian Islands Humpback Whale National Marine Sanctuary Maui Headquarters Office
  • 20.76431   -156.45928
  • Stereo
    Sampling Rate
  • 48kHz
    Bit Depth
  • 16-bit
  • Sennheiser MKH 30
  • Sennheiser MKH 40
    Equipment Note
  • Stereo=1; Decoded MS stereo; Sennheiser MKH40 Cardioid Mid Mic and MKH30 Bidirectional Side Mic into Sony TCD10 Pro 2


Charles Kauluwehi Maxwell, Sr. (CM)
Allen Tom (AT)
Alex Chadwick (AC)
Les Gilbert (LG)


lg 10:18 am 3/7 at NMS on MAUI

tcd10 pro-2 sennheiser mics cado on left, fig 8 on right

1:01 cm koholi in Hi is called whales but there's two kinds of whales ...kohola is humpback, sperm whale called kuala ...b/c the royalty

1:18 cm this is from a sperm whale

1:22 ac that tooth around your neck?

--its not a tooth its two "arms" to show that the whales were revered in ancient times this point here that's called ??? meaning where the whales parade ... that was a regular path for the whales to come when they came to HI to give birth

1:52 cm symbol of the whale the ??? is teeth so the tooth of whale was carved into symbol that depicted royalty and so the whale is the manifestation of the god kanaloa.

2:18 cm kanaloa is god of agri., trees, lushness, plant, fish in ocean

2:34 the naia is the dolphins they weren't eaten they were treated as gods as representation we have a thing called kinaloa is physical manifestation of kanaloa we talk about Christ the god cannot be seen, but for HI religion--incidentally i'm a christian --for hi relig all growth is manifestation of kanaloa ...

3:20 cm so you cannot touch or harm, wasn't touched harmed, eaten because they were so amazing animals, the dolphins so amazing like humans

4:12 cm spiritually... an incident happened to me in 1991, and this made national news many times ...

4:27 cm the ritz carleton tried to take out this huge mound and we had warned them that it was a burial place for our ancestors and uh they had all kind of archeologists and they said only small remains--after 40 feet down over 1000 remains

seven of us was chosen to wrap the remains, the last night we buried them at night and we had about 400 remains all wrapped with alahala pendantas leaf and tapa cloth and ... we had them all ready to cover the pit and we heard this slapping sound coming from the ocean and immediately i told my friend ah hoilona ... means the sign and when we looked over the sand dune in the bay-¬this huge whale was turned sideways and slapping the petral fin rhythmically almost like the way we beat our drums{6:20) ...our temple drums, poom-poom! ... did it about 15 minutes when we went back three owls flew over us and screamed and headed for the mountains (6:40)

7:18 cm I was on this rim looking towards this pit and i was thinking wow its like i'm a thousand years back in time and I see my ancestors a thousand years back in time and i see my ancestors a thousand years ago ...and all of a sudden this song came to me which i wrote which was nominated as top songs of HI, and it says the torches were lit at midnight ... to show the spirits back their way to their final resting place and reunite their spirits with their bones...

8:06 cm they didn't know how to tell thank these men who laid their bones to rest so the called upon the kohola to tell them of their return and the owl signaled that they are finally back here at Hanakahua and it shall always be the adornment of Maui this place that we call

8:58 cm the whale came to us in a very spiritual way

9:20 cm Charles Ka'ulvae Maxwell and i am a hi cultural specialist ...

9:49 ac we're here to talk about whales, but also geography of heaven

10:38 cm see our values and the western values clash because they don't believe in what we believe that's why we don't assimilate into the western culture because they don't understand our values to us , to live here to be able fish in the ocean to have a stream in the backyard it would be a multimillionaire for a native HI ...and
that's why the HI word is kanaka vai-rich kanaka vai vai rich who ever lives by the water is rich, for HI when a person dies his physical body only dies. . . but whenever I need help I call on them and even like i said i'm a christian i respect ev hawaiian about five years ago one of the most controversial things in HI because there was a woman that was eaten by a shark here in ??? and state set out all kinds of hooks to catch sixty-70 sharks and had my own show on radio and uh i protested that i say hey my greatgrandmother used to breast feed the sharks the sharks are my god ...not all all hell broke loose who is there god a lot of them had their shark ... come wherever afterwards we say a christian prayer land is not to be sold when western man came over 1893 all of these factors has not changed our concept of who we are we still have our cultural beliefs stories of shark gods its abundant but people don't talk about it.

talks more about religion

24:41 cm and i called the whales and the whales came right around the boat and i had that lady sylvia earle she was amazed that the whale came right around , i chanted for couple minutes boy the whales came right up ...

ac can you do a chant?

25:15 cm ...chants ... 25:36

26:33 cm i'll do this one and its calling my ...amakuha shark

26:45 cm chants 27:25

manna is I said "come" ...

27:52 cm whenever 1 go to the ocean ...or i do this

28:12 cm its invoking words to help us out ...

ac you were telling me ...act. was an ancestor that led way to HI

28:30 cm shark by the name of ??? it was a huge 30 foot shark that brought the double hulled canoes to ??? this channel is called ??? the road to tahiti

28:49 cm when my gr grandmother died they prepared her body and made a small canoe and they towed it out to the middle of channel the canoe went straight back to tahiti ... so she went back to land of ancestors

talks about creation of islands ...and naming of land formations
32:18 cm they were self-contained they were part of the ecosystems they were the best ecologists because there was the law if you polluted the waters ...the penalty was death...everything was pristine ...

32:52 em
look what they are doing to the oceans all the plastics and everything... they should have been killed long ago that's why its so polluted now ...

talks about capt. cook, genocide of hi people

talking about stereotypes ...

--a lot of my warriors are not Hawaiian

36:58 ac ask about place of whale in culture ...more or fewer whales

37:14 cm there was a lot of whales ... they were so revered it was like common sense ...tried to look
has Web page

40:13 ac do you have a perspective on the sanc.?

40: 32 cm i think its so imp that we have something like this so we have somewhere to focus ... took me about a year to give them permission to catch sharks and i went all around talking to elders and they said if they could use it in an educational context ...

42:32 cm this place the sanc is a learning tool i think this sanc is wonderful ... the whale watching people should go back another hundred yards ...eventually they will educate

44:11 cm i really like sylvia... fantastic lady...she is a practical environmentalist ....ev panicked when this thing came ...they are loving it to death .. .

Int. wi Allen Tom

45:38 at
My name's allen tom i'm the manager of the HI humpback whale sanc ...

45:46 ac has name of particular species

46:13 at at this time it encompasses areas around all the major hi islands and when you look at our boundaries it looks like a hodge-podge of areas and what that is is this is highest concentrations of humpback whales ...what is the humpback pop. they think its between 2-3000 maybe even 4000 but they are still an endangered animal hi is are one of the few places in the world where you can
see the humpbacks in such a high concentration so close to land...

--population not growing as rapidly as gray whales so still on endangered species list...

--ac why Hawaii?

47:40 at waters rel pristine not alot of activity on water relative to other places substrate under water conducive for males to sing and when sings female hears it alot clearer...and again we just don't know

ac sanc is new what do you think is going to happen here? what is the goal of this sanc ...

48:18 i think one of our main goals is to provide ?s like you just asked so I in five yrs I can say this is how many and this is why they are here ... 48:33 i'm hoping that it shines a spotlight on what we are trying to do here ...

48:53 ac are these same humpbacks that go to alaska and mexico

48:57 our humpbacks are part of a larger population they leave here about april/may go to alaska where they feed ...mingle w whales from mexico and japan...what is unique about that is one whale will be come to Hi for many years will one year go to japan or even within one year transit back and forth ...

49:41 ac how long do humpbacks live?

49:43 at
that's a good question we don't know ...we prob suspect upwards of twenty years

50:17 at when i hear them singing when i'm out swimming v close to shore and it just sort of reverberates through your body and i think how lucky i am to be doing what i do and to be living in hi and to have these mag creatures out there somewhere, i don't think i can relate that exp ...

51:13 cj
is there a danger that the interest ... that they are literally being loved to death

51:36 at its a double-edged sword i think as we teach more people about humpbacks they want to go out in water and see them ... sanc tries to balance that ...

52:06 at this has been an el nino year look at the side of the mountains are very dry we are going through water rationing ... there's a theory that the humpbacks arrived later and that they will leave

"Uncle Charlie"

56:41 ac whales were here when hi first came here?

--cm yes ...and talks more about naming of hi places ...

"uncle Charlie"

56:30 ac/cm used to be a diver ...never went out very deep ...when went to water wasn't for recreation it was to gather, go spear fishing, went to ocean was for a purpose, seen many sharks ...but not whales except from far away, and my parents spoke about the whales in a very reverent way

Lahaina whaling capital of the world--the hellhole of the pacific

alot of blood, brought alot of sharks ...

1:00:20 cm 500 whaling ships ...

*********1:00:17 cm use this chant because its like a generic chant and for your program and if you want to lead off with it it would be very appropriate b/c it calls on the gods to come together and understand what we are doing. its called ??? means "to come"

1:01:58 cm ...chants ...1:03:02

whenever we start something big, start with this (chant) it makes ev means makes ev "right"

more talk of religion


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