ML 141222


Interview 5:18 - 52:48 Play 5:18 - More
Audio »
Video »
species »
Ed Cassano; Rob Klinger, Lyndal Laughrin  







Santa Cruz Island; Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary  

Interview 1:18:33 - 1:29:34 Play 1:18:33 - More
Audio »
Video »
species »
Ed Cassano; Rob Klinger, Lyndal Laughrin  







Santa Cruz Island; Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary  

Pale-tipped Tyrannulet -- Inezia caudata

NPR/NGS Radio Expeditions
24 Jun 1997

  • United States
    Santa Barbara County
  • Santa Cruz Island; Coches Prietas
  • 33.96806   -119.70639
  • Ocean
  • Stereo
    Sampling Rate
  • 48kHz
    Bit Depth
  • 16-bit
    Equipment Note
  • Stereo=2: 1=L, 2=R; Decoded MS stereo

NMS - Channel Islands
June 24, 1997
9:42 am

Ed Cassano (EC)
Rob Klinger (RK)
Lyndal Laughrin (LL)

On Santa Cruz Is, going on hike with Univ. and Nature Conservancy.

Walking up beach, recording surf.


0:40-surf, nice crashing wave at 2:04 walking 2:30

2:43-bg talking and surf

3:50-more surf and walking in sand with clicking of cameras

4:35-id of people on hike

5:18-ac well we'd like to know about the island and its history and how you see the island and your rel. with the sanc.

5:28-7:49 rk "well obv. we're an inholding with the park and the sanctuary from the standpoint of conserv. management there's abs. no way you can separate what we're doing on the land and what's going on in the ocean. like i was telling you before one of our main programs is a prescribed burning program we're using that prescribed burning program urn as a way of controlling some of the exotic plants out here and also since it was one of the main ecological processes out here to shape the plant comm. what species occurred where and how these changed over time. we have hopes of restoring that as an ecological process that's been suppressed since the ranching era--160 years--you know you talk about this as an ecolo. process restoring an ecological process the fire regime out here was prob completely a slave to the fog regime and the for regime is totally dependent on what's happening with the marine environment changes in temp--currents and wind patterns so when we talk about using fire as a restoration tool and as something we're restoring as an ecological process we have to realize that we may be focused on the scale of tens to hundreds of acres when actually there are these large processes happening out in the ocean that over the long term are going to determine how we use fire and what we can expect when we use fire ... (more talk about the islands' climate)"

7:50 ac What is it that you want to do with this island

7:55 rk I think ideally what we'd like to do from a management standpoint is remove the gr. ecological threats, feral animals some of the most invasive alien plants once those threats are removed set up a management pro. that est. a trajectory if you will of what dir. we would like to see the native species go--we know we're not going to get all the alien species off this island that's impossible 25% of our flora are non native and we know that we're going to have animals introduced here intermittently over time --things are always going to be changing but is we can establish a set of conditions that over all benefits native plants and
animals so that they can at least achieve parity with the non-natives and then step back and let it go and not tinker. ed was talking about the time frame ... {more talk about the fact that this is a long-term project)

10:05-10:15 rk But i think ultimately we would like to have a hands-off approach to this island simply because if you tinker too much you're probably going to screw things up ultimately

conversation with LL and RK about nat. cons. and long-term program changes on the island, ecological changes.

16:42 cj what about the native peoples?

16:50 LL right now we have evidence on san miguel island dating back to roughly ar. 10,000 yrs before present for native americans to be operating around these islands the last gr considered are the chumash ...and they're the group that was found on the mainland ...and they had a maritime economy primarily around the ocean there village site they had very sea-worthy canoes so they moved back and forth between the islands ...

21:23-23: rk Santa Cruz description, orientating self interesting part about geology:

23:25-24:00 You'll notice that it has this incredibly complex, i like to call it schizo. geology out here the ocean floor has been uplifted its sliding because of the fault so you get really amazing discreet changes in rock type and soil type in v.v short distances. the terrain is very rugged this is not a flat palm tree tropical island paradise.

some of the buildings that are left ...

walking fx

talking about midden? site.

26:37-27:31 This island was ess. the mint for the chumash culture. the uh little marine snail the olivella? snail that was used was found from the sandy beaches on the west end, the particular type of rock that they had access to for making their drills for manufacturing the uh little shell bead that event. comes out of the olivella snail and the specialization certain village sites had in not only procuring rock for the tool ...then they would string them together in these little strands and that would be used in the system for trading and bartering back and forth. for some reason this island became the source for this stuff fairly exclusively and served kind of as a money-making mint system for this group of indians.

27:35-talk about island ecology (nvi) sound a little off mic ... with the way that the landscapes on the mainland are being altered and frag. right now they actually functionally become like an island what's going to happen is that over time, and prob not that much time a matter of a few decades you're going to see fewer species, occurring in these (fragments so in a world where we're increasing our ;urbanization you're getting smaller and smaller chunks of island we're setting aside smaller areas in parks and preserves so alot of conservation science that is done now is using islands as models to predict what's going to happen in these parks and preserves that we're setting up to maintain some relic of our biodiversity and that's where places like the channel islands become abs. critical one of the real typical examples that's given for loss of species diversity in this day and age is habitat destruction or alteration and fragmentation functionally we have the same thing going on with alien species ... (further talk about the non-native species) ... comparison with mainland--species isolation...

31:48 rk we can learn a lot about the biology of rarity and how we can plan on managing these species so we don't so many in the future that's some of the real value of using islands as places to study 32:03 (good sound, but not great)

talk about example Island blue jay own species

32:03 LL "An example of one of the endemic forms that rob was talking about right in front of us on top of that shrub over there is an island jay this is a an endemic bird that's been recently recognized to be a distinct enough to be a considered as a species, formerly it was a subspecies of the mainland scrub jay but its been isolated on this island long enough that the biologists that have looked at it have figured its diff enough to be considered a distinct species, its characterized... larger body size, skeletal more intense blue color, its a jay that's found only on this island amazingly enough it hasn't even made it across the five miles between santa cruz and santa rosa island.

34:03 ac wouldn't you think that some of these foxes would really flourish with the sheep here

... talk about sheep and fox ...competition for food betwn two

walking fx

talk about island species as walking

philosophy of reserves:

41:26 ec in marine sanctuary one of the things that is really kind of different and the nature conservancy is kind of an example the sanc. promotes sustainable use l we encourage people to come out and use the resources in a wise manner, resource protection is number one the resources have to protected but if their protected and managed in a proper way they certainly should be able to be used in a sustainable way that contrasts with the conservancy...

41:59 rk historically, when the conservancy was doing conservation action it was to preserve a very distinct species or a very rare plant community so you set up this network of relatively small postage stamp-size preserves well, as we learned more and more over the last thirty to forty years you start recognizing that the well-being of these species that you bought these preserves for and are managing are extremely dependent on what's the landscape of what's happening around them and probably a marine ex. would be the marine-scape that's around them. so gradually the conservancy has evolved into an into organization that is trying to preserve large landscapes and they/re taking an eco. system level philosophy and its what ed was talking about we're trying to encourage compatible human use. (43:23) and trying to conserve very large landscapes now because for yr. conservation buck you get the most bang out of that 43:34

understanding cycles

buzzing fly--

talk about importance of people seeing the island

45:10-ac would you have people come out and look around?

45:34-46:24 rk we can sit here and we can talk to you all for hrs. and hrs. and tell you gret eco. facts and go on and on about conservation science ... but i think the way that all of us connect with us can't explain it, it's a gut level feeling ... i think by letting people get out and have an opportunity to look at a place like this that when's the last time you stood on an abandoned cove? .. get a sense of what it is being preserved for us it might be scientific for someone else aesthetic but the point is that you build a constituency some people need to learn the value of preserving these areas ...

46:51 rk its not just the concept of a preserve it's preserve systems I that are linked climactically uh with animals through things such as migration...

(more about interconnectedness of the species--philosophy of conservation)

53:03-55:25 ms spaced omnis, so don't try to decode it

surf, birds ...

55:27-57:24 ambi another perspective, surf and birds, fly buzz

57:55-59:40 spaced omnis, do not decode. walking on santa cruz, sounds very quick and sort of like marching, less so towards end, ambi bug and bird humming, twittering, terrain sounds rocky

57:46 MS

59:58 more gentle walking sounds, water in bg

1:01:55 birds, grasshopper? sounds

1:03:33 clicking tongue, signaling something, clicking fingers

looking for some animal by sound ...

1:03:59 "there's one over here ... " more ambi with bird and bug fx

1:06:23 walking on rocky terrain again.

1:06:55-1:08:40 PRG 14 ms--near a pool, little splashes, trickling water, occasional fly buzz

1:08:47-1:10:00 increasing the gain, ms. water trickling into pool? bird calls movement of equipment, crossing stream 2nd stream crossing

1:10:09-1:10:38 talking in the bg, birds, crossing of stream (1st one is better) .

looking for a quieter spot.

1:12:35 ambi. stream

1:13:00-1:14:30 2nd spot stream ambi. "distant --stream"? birds chirping towards end

1:14:49-1:15:56 close shot 10 ft away from babbling brook

1:16:05-1:17:15 another angle 10 feet away bab. brook walking, approaching gr.--bg talk.

1:18:22 talking about guy in charge of mountain lions

1:18:33 ac let me ask you this, well obviously you have been doing other things and could be doing other things, why are you on this island, you personally?

1:18:46 2 things i've never indiv. found a system that is as interesting or as challenging urn and i think that the work that we're doing here on this island and in a number of different places in the conservancy is prob some of the if ,not the most imp. work that people on this planet are doing right now, we really don't have a fund. understanding of how ecosystems work how we're changing the world and what our natural heritage means to us and to have an opp to be in a place like this and try and contribute a brick in the wall of our knowledge and to try and sort of untangle this web a little, so we have some predictive power and can make some wise decisions, i feel so fortunate to be able to do that i just love it here.

1:19:49 ac when you talk about the web is th ms part of that web?

1:19:55 r absolutely...absolutely... (talk about interconnectedness of systems) ...everybody has heard of the story of the balance of nature, its one of the greatest fallacies ever concocted on humans ever there is no balance of nat. never has been things are always in a flux, always changing. even if the chumash hadn't come here, even if the europeans hadn't ranched this area, this island would not look know like it did 150-500 2000 year ago, eco. sys. are always in a flux and our understanding is limited by the spatial scale that we're working at and by the time scale this island is just one other piece in this whole coastal system and its not just the other seven islands its that whole coastal system...1:21:43 ...mention about fog ...

1:22:17-1:25:45 ac You all have a joint project together?

LL-talking about joint project, contribution to database. not very interesting.

1:25:46 ec-talk about gis system and research bibliography-a little more interesting.

1:28:54 LL-There's this saying "no man is an island" and "no island is an island" really either in some sense all these diff interactions rob mentioned the physical and spatial interactions and . .. so it is a web, system kind of connection

looking for scrub jays

1:30:47 spaced omnis birds (scrub jay?--i don't think there are any here)

1:31:58-1:34:52 trying to record scrub jays again--ms "see them but don't here them", fly buzzing, alot of diff bird calls (but not sure if they are the right ones)

1:34:59 PRG 25 third take, bug noises, fly buzzing, birds

1:36:57 clear bird calls (scrub jay?)

1:39:37 PRG 26 more of the same, motor in bg

1:40:42-1:42:10 motor getting closer, eventually passes

1:42:14 spaced omnis--babbling brook, birds in the bg.

1:44:33-1:48:01 PRG 28 more surf with birds in bg

1:48:04-1:51:49 surf, standing in water coming out

1:52:19 next to cliff, further down on beach, surf,

1:55:54 anchor being let down by sailboat about 300 ft off-shore., v. distant
walking over to rocks

1:56:45 directly underneath the cliff, surf to end 2:04:19

Close Title