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Environmental Recording 2:10 - 35:43 Play 2:10 - More
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Mexico City street ambi  

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Environmental Recording 56:03 - 1:09:22 Play 56:03 - More
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Interview 1:13:21 - 1:36:38 Play 1:13:21 - More
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Roberto Solis  

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NPR/NGS Radio Expeditions
15 Jan 1999

    Geography
  • Mexico
    Distrito Federal
    Locality
  • Mexico City; Zocalo
    Latitude/Longitude
  • 19.43278   -99.13333
    Recording TimeCode
  • 2:10 - 35:43
    Geography
  • Mexico
    Distrito Federal
    Locality
  • Mexico City
    Latitude/Longitude
  • 19.43274   -99.13325
    Recording TimeCode
  • 56:03 - 1:36:38
    Channels
  • Stereo
    Sampling Rate
  • 48kHz
    Bit Depth
  • 16-bit
    Recorders
  • SONY TCD-D7
    Microphones
  • Sennheiser MKH 40
  • Sennheiser MKH 30
    Accessories
    Equipment Note
  • Stereo=1; Decoded MS stereo; Sennheiser MKH40 Cardioid Mid Mic and MKH30 Bidirectional Side Mic through Sonosax Preamp into Sony TCD7

00:00:00 Testing mic 00:02:03

00:02:10 Ambi Trucks, music in background. Spanish voices in background. Very loud traffic. Whistles and music volume increase. Horns and motorcycles mixed with Spanish voices.

00:06:43 Man on a microphone speaking and singing

00:07:11 Nice little clip of traffic with Spanish music going by in a car

00:07:39 Accordion music that sounds like carnival tunes, or an ice cream man going by traffic in background 00:08:26

00:09:35

Roberto Solis/ John Burnett

JB
01:17:53 The people who visit here, do they bother the butterflies in any way?

RS
01:18:02 No, in general the tourists respect the butterflies.
This don¿t mean that sometimes a few problems don¿t occur. Sometimes the children like to play or there are sometimes people who don¿t know the rules and they want to take a butterfly as a souvenir. But in general the behavior of the tourist is that of much respect.

JB
01:19:01
How do you protect the sanctuaries and the butterflies?

RS
01:19:10
That is the most difficult question for this protected area. The monarch butterfly does not require very sophisticated, technical conservation activites. I am going to explain why. The butterfly is an insect, a very beautiful one but an insect. Their population is massive. It¿s millions of individuals. It s not a species that is in danger of extinction. Not a species that has a restricted habitat. On the contrary, it is a species that colonizes large areas all over the world. It is a species that has a clear historical relationship with man. The monarch, consequently, an be considered a cosmopolitan species. And with a positive link with human beings. For this reason, it is not necessary at this point to have sophisticated methods of conservation. However, it is very important to conserve the forests because this is the habitat of the butterfly. Therefore, the more important task is the conservation of the forests which are the habitat of the butterfly.

JB
1:22:13
Good, when we were on our way here we passed a lot of roads and traffic. Are you and your team here concerned with the cutting of wood and the situation that faces the habitat of the butterfly?

RS
1:22:42
Yes, we are very concerned with the threats that face the forest as well as the use of the forestry but we cannot forget that in the this region that nearly 500,000 people live in this region and they need opportunities to make lead a dignified life. The great challenge is to have conservation schemes that preserve the monarchs habitat as well as to improve the standard of living for the farmers that live in these areas.

JB
01:24:07 Do you think in your heart that it is possible to balance the interests of the butterflies and the people to arrive at a solution for the butterflies and the people.

RS
01:24:31 In my heart, I have no doubt that the butterflies have the same value as the human beings who live there. In my head is where I sometimes have trouble balancing out the needs of the farmers and the needs of the butterflies because I love the farmer children that live in this area.

JB
01:25:47 As I understand it, you are stuck in both sides, the side of the people and the side of the biologists. You are stuck in the middle, right?

RS
0:1:26:01 I receive complains from all sides. From scientists, North Americans Canadians the ecologists and I never receive any support from anybody. But I do have the support of Julio Carrabia who is the Minister of the Mexican Environmental Authority and my colleagues at ENA which is a National Ecology Institute.

JB
01:26:53 Tell me a little bit about the complaints that you receive in a week.

RS
01:27:00 For the part of biologists and ecologists the biggest complaint is that wood is being used legally and illegally. And the important thing that I have to explain to them is that you can use the forest without affecting the monarchs migration. And I have an historical example that neither the biologists or ecologists can argue with. The butterflies have arrived at this place for thousands of years, the indigenous people knew them well. For the indigenous people that butterfly is the soul of dead people. This idea is much deeper than any biological concept that attempts to describe the monarch. Therefore, if these people have been taking care of the monarch for so many years and we can still see and enjoy the forest than the monarchs, the forest and the farmers can live together well.

JB
01:30:01 Are there people who say that this is maybe a position of optimism and that we need to fight for the forest to protect them?

RS
01:30:12 I believe that all human beings are optimistic. The only difference is that some of us get difficult jobs and others get simple jobs. If you have a difficult job then you should be more optimistic.

JB
01:30:49 Then you are optimistic about the future of the monarch butterfly in this region?

RS
01:30:58 I am sure that all if all of us continue our work in these forests every year that the butterflies will continue to arrive. I can¿t think that there is a human being that exists that wants that this beautiful forest disappears. I think that there are some human beings that need a little bit of this wood and that¿s good to take the wood to solve their problems.

JB
01:32:00
How do you feel and what do you think as Robert Solis? Speaking only of your impression when you are in the middle of trees covered with monarch butterflies. When you are surrounded by this spectacle of nature how do you feel?

RS
01:32:32
It¿s very difficult to describe the feeling you get when you see the butterflies but I could use two words, happiness and tranquillity. That is monarch.

JB
01:33:02 The people that live in the region still consider the monarch the soul of the dead?

RS
01:33:16 Many people that still have very religious beliefs think that the monarch is announcing the soul of their dead ones. And this is so because in Mexico a very important popular religious event is the Day of the Dead. And the butterflies arrive when we celebrate the dead. The first and the second of November every year.

JB
01:34:12 Maybe this isn¿t coincidental.

RS
01:34:14 Maybe it¿s our dead people.

JB
01:34:22 When you speak of the indigenous people it¿s not the Indians, who are you speaking of?

RS
01:34:33 The people that have a different way of thinking from our western thought and who have a different view of the world. They are people who have other moral values and that measure time and life in a different way than we do. I doesn¿t matter if they dress like I do, what I am sure is that they think in a different way than I think.

JB
01:35:34 Are you speaking of the Masagua?

RS
01:35:39 The Masagua and the Automy.

Thank yous.

Ambiance¿
Description of surroundings

Quiet with little chirping sounds, voices echoing in the background

01:42:43
Ambi- Footsteps walking through the forest.01:43:56

01:43:57 Hello Mr. And Mrs. Guides. How are you?

01:44:00
Good.

01:44:02
Where are your ¿¿

01:44:03
They are up above.

01:44:05
Very few right now.

01:44:06
Yes.

01:44:08
We want to talk to you about the life of a guide. Is this ok?

01:44:13
Yes (multiple voices)

01:44:15
You are professionals. How many are there of you?

01:44:23
Seven or eight.

01:44:30
Que saben Uds. sobre los mariposas?
What do you know about the butterflies?

01:44:31
Sabemos donde viene y ¿ viene de Canada¿ las touristas a ver la .. visitan el sactuario. Este es el abuelito de.. Este encontrado.. Es abuelito de el y Don Victor y Don Rodolfo.Tenemos un librito de el¿ la ver la mariposa¿
We know where they live, that the come from Canada, they¿ the tourists come to look at them and visit the sanctuary. (Mixed voices)..This is the grandfather of this one¿Don Victor, Don Rodolfo¿ We have a little book about him.

JB
01:45:20 Cuantos pueden ganar en un buen dia, un guia?
How much can you earn on a good day, one guide?

LG
01:45:24 Cintuenta, cuarenta, trienta. JB- Treinta or Cuarenta pesos?
30 or 40 pesos
LG- Si

JB
01:45:37 De donde viene los touristas?
And where do the tourists come from?

LG
01:45:40 Mexico, Sacatecas, Puebla, from Puerto Rico.. the United States, Canada.

JB
01:45:55 Que dicen cuando los touristas miren las mariposas para la primera vez?
What do the tourists say when they look at the butterflies for the first time?

LG
01:46:03
Que esta muy bonitos. Que la quedemos. Sacan photos. They are beautiful, they take pictures¿

Ambi.. truck going by
Como en este ano¿ en este ano.. en camino mas pronto

JB
01:46:40
Hay mucho corte de madera aqui en la montana?
Is there much cutting of the wood here in the mountain?

LG
Aqui pero esta en elegido, no. Que lado de Catingon de Santanta de Rosario¿. 01:46:43 Yes, here but ¿ the choose not to,..but also on the side of Catingo, of Santana, Rosario. Y sacan la madera. They take the wood.

JB
01:46:59
Y ese corta amanaza las mariposas en alguna manera. And this cutting harms the butterflies in any way?

LG
01:47:07
Si

JB 01:47:08
Que es? Como es?
How so?

LG
01:47:11
(Wait for car to pass) Los senores que vienen la corta la madera no significan.. mariposa, no?¿ la cortan la mariposa se mueren.
Hay unos que vienen en la en sigienda.. Various mix of voices. Talking about viligilantes.. etc..

JB
01:47:48 Fueron los vigilantes?

LG
01:47:49 Si.

JB
01:47:50 La guardia?

LG
01:47:51
Si

JB
01:47:51
Que hicieron?

LG
01:47:52 ¿Los agarraron y fueron y¿ que hista la mariposa. [Sorry I can¿t catch this off the tape it¿s too jumbled so I can¿t make out individual phrases]
Tambien por lo ellos que incendio se muerta la mariposa..

JB
01:48:09 Por que los quemo?

LG
01:48:10 Por que es necessario..como tiro la colea.. y tambien un senor que esta haciendo carbon llega no la lumbre.. (Haciendo carbon?) Si

JB
01:48:23 Uds. piensan que las mariposas necisitan mejor protecion?

LG
01:48:28 Si.

JB
01:48:29 Como?

LG
01:48:32 Cuidando la. Este lademos de cuidar por que vuelva a regresar. Y no matala. Y no permitir que se la lleve.

JB
01:48:43 Si le lleve?

LG
01:48:44 Si

01:48:45 Saque nos se la puenden llevar. [?] puntar su dirrecion de la casa¿el telefono¿

Asides.. (otro carro)

JB
01:49:28 Pero, el turismo por razon de las mariposas ayuda los pueblos aqui?

LG
01:49:36 Si.

JB
01:49:37 En como? Aparte de Uds.?

LG
01:49:42 De los que vienen aqui, los touristas¿ que van a comer o de paseo .. y estan muy caro por eso se van. Y la comida estan muy cara y refresco bien caros.. casi los mantellas..80 cientos

JB
1:50:12 Mucho.

LG
01:50:13 Si

JB
01:50:24 Manana estara un dia muy activa.

LG
01:50:25 Yo creo si.

LG
01:50:32 Los Sabados ..cuando entre mas gente, entra mas touristas bueno en casi tres semana no entra

JB
01:50:44 Uds. pues combaten entre sus mismos para los clientes?

LG
01:50:54 Si, a veces que estamos peleamos. (jumbled talking about times they were fighting each other)

JB
01:50:55 Que es la clave ganar clientes?

LG
01:51: ???

JB
01:51:32 Qual es son los nombres pimeros?

LG
01:51:34
Es de mi es Ramon, Rafael, Jose, Rolelio, Salvador, Manuel, Jose, es Pancho

JB
01:51:50 Los mariposeros

LG
Y esto es Willi Valto

(Playing around with each other, teasing each other asking each other to say their names.)

JB
01:52:58 Y el frio no molestan Uds?

LG
01:52:59 No, estamos accustumbrado

JB
01:53:09 Si dicen que hay menos la cantidad de mariposas que vinieron este ano.

LG
01:53:16 Este hay circa de un .. pero casi (downed out by truck) ¿ 4 mil.. cuando si estan bonitos cuando bajo en el camino alli sacan fotos bien, cuando viene..se veen bonito.. bajan dos por el camino y tu ambien, y tu tambien.. cabeza de plumo..no entiende (playing around again)

JB
01:54:38 Pero si damos algo necisitan compartir entre todos, no?

LG 01:54:44
Si

JB
Como sabemos que vayan a compartirlo? Quien es el bancaro?

LG
Yo, Yo, (arguing about it)

Giving them money, promising to share, dividing it

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