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Interview 5:11 - 20:00 Play 5:11 - More
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Frederick Boltz, Russell Mittermeier  

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Lemurs; Conservation  

Environmental Recording 22:16 - 27:32 Play 22:16 - More
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NPR/NGS Radio Expeditions
Apr 1995

    Geography
  • Madagascar
    Antsiranana
    Locality
  • Daraina
    Latitude/Longitude
  • -13.20556   49.66111
    Channels
  • Stereo
    Sampling Rate
  • 48kHz
    Bit Depth
  • 16-bit
    Recorders
    Microphones
    Accessories
    Equipment Note
  • Stereo=1; Stereo

Madagascar
DAT #7, Daraina #2

(Russ) the worst is over now...boy that hurt, and we got open cuts on the legs ... (bill) can i get some ambience in here index 2 bill collecting ambience in forest... 4 leans it against a tree and tries, it sounds better, it sounds wet, but it sounds dull. not my first choice. watch goes off. gets better after that, more gain, but still not great. still sounds dull, lacks definition,but will have to do as backdrop for the '01 miner maybe
526 ON YOUR LIST DO YOU NEED A PHOTOGRAH? no, just a legitimate sighting. you can't lie... lyng is not permitted in a life list contest. you don't have to get a voucher. but it helps.
5:43TELL ME ABOUT TATERSALLI-CAN YOU DESCRIBE IT?
One of the distinctive things about it is that it has pointy ears, the ears stick
out the sides of the head. that's really the feature that distinguishes it from the rest of the sifakas, the fact that the ears stick out. and then it has that little golden
crown... in terms of sifaka morphology that's what really distinguishes it. it's very similar in body shape to the other more common sifakas that occur in the west and the south, but it has that very distinctive reddish crown and those pointy ears .

.NOW DESCRIBE FOR SOMEBODY NEVER SEEN SIFAKAS BEFORE, NO POINT
OF REFERENCE FOR THAT (bill talks over alex)some people like to describe them as e.t. like creatures, they really are bizarre. the indri, which is the most bizarre of them all i describe as looking like... a cross between a teddy bear and a giant panda bounding from tree to tree like an arboreal kangaroo...kind of an elongated ball of cotton with a grey muzzle and usually some golden or brown on the head, and really impish little faces. and wait til you see the locomotion. it's just spectacular. they really do move like arboreal kangaroos. they really just bound from branch to branch rather than walking. WHY IS IT THEIR EYES ARE--HAVE THIS ENORMOUS EYES WITH HUGE IRISES IN ORANGE AND YELLOW ...WELL,I CAN'T TELL ON THESE PARTICULAR ONES, BUT OTHER ONES I'VE SEEN, WITH TINY PINPOINT LITTLE PUPILS. well, they're diurnal, very visually oriented animals. they're entirely diurnal animals which is unusual among the lemurs because you have many nocturnal species and then you have also some of the diurnal species like the true lemurs are also partly nocturnal in certain situations, so truly diurnal animals. one of the reasons you pay so much attention to their eyes is that, unlike monkeys, they stare at you. a stare in a monkey is a direct threat, like an asian macaque, if he stares at you he's threatening you, and they will very rarely look at you, they'll look away in all different directions. with lemurs it's different. they'll just look at you and study you hour after hour 809, which makes them wonderful to photograph and what makes them really more charming than many other primates. you can see this one's been looking at us since we got here, she's checking us out very carefully and not at all turning away, whereas a monkey would be constantly turning away, moving around turning its head trying to hide. these animals, if they're not heavily hunted, sit there and look at you. they're really quite appealing. but they almost look
like creatures from another planet, they really look otherorldly. for someone who works with more typical monkeys and apes, they really just look like something that just stepped off a spaceship. and in many ways Madagascar 852, spaceship madagascar, really is a different part of the world, it's a mini continent in its own right, and many of the animals that are here are unlike .anything else on the planet. and these really are the best indicators--the bestflagships-for this extremely unique country. the're the most unique animals in one of the most unique and appealing countries on the planet. perhaps the most unique and appealing country on the Plane 922 I WOULD GUESS THAT ANIMAL IS ABOUT 100 FET AWAY FROM US? yeah, anywhere from 75 to 100 feet. that other one just moved alittle bit... oh, it looks like we have... is that two up there, or just one? it looks like we have five in this group...that's a male. look at the fur. the fur is just wonderful,like a big ball of cotton. I HAVEN'T SPOTTED THIS OTHER TWOSOME HERE. just go back a few steps and look up these branches right here. they're sitting right next to each ptoher, probably a male and a female. the one on the left is a male. and they're looking down at us again, you see? OH YEAH. THEY'RE RIGHT ABOVE US. and here comes the rain. THOSE ARE CLOSE. yeah, somewhere between 50 and 75 feet. AND THEY'RE WHAT, 40 FEET OFF THEGROUND? a little bit more. fifty, maybe sixty feet off teh ground. it's hard to say where the ground is because it's sloping down toward the riverbank. but...the challenge is to be patient enough and wait until they come down to about five or ten feet away from us, then we'll really get some good pictures. AND THEN YOU WANT TO GET YOUR PHOTS? Zright. i will try to get some photos if they don't move any closer. but i guess ...they don't seem to be bothered by our presence at all. they apparently aren't persecuted by the local people at all from what i can tell, because we have signs of goldmining here in the river and yet these animals are compeltely unfaraid of our presence, so it look slike the taboo, the local taboo, has held even with the invasion of the goldminers. it appears they're not being harassed. and here they're not even in the main block of forest, they in this little patch of gallery forest going out into the cattle pasture, so they seem to be doing reasonably well in terms of direct human pressure. of course the habitat is being detroyed all around them. but at least, fortuantely they don't seem dto be suffering too much from hunting pressure. HOW MANY OF THESE LEMURS ARE THERE DO YOU THINK? 11.36the estimates done by david meyers and fred boltz for this entire little region where they occur, all the little forest patches together, run about 6 tyo 8 thousand, but at this point in time there are no protected area for this species whatsoever, not even a classifed forest or a forest preserve, not to mention a national park or a biological reserve. so the main priority right now is to ensure that some sort of protection is provided for these forest patches that remain for this species, and then i think very quickly develop a mini-ecotourism industry here, just include this in the lemur watching circuit, tourist circuit for this country, so that the tourism and the income generated by it reinforces their (the locals) fadi, their taboo not to persecute these creatures. (aside) 1001s like might df1ear, see a little blue sky there...ARE THESE ENDANGERED? oh absolutely. i think that these without a doubt 1304 among the two or three most endangered of all your malagasy 1emurs,and probably in the top ten to twenty most endangered primates in the world. they have a very small range, it's a very fragmented range, no corridors between the remaining patches of forest which are on the order of a few hundred or a few thousand hectares, and there is no protection for any of these forests at this pint in time. so one of the priorities for us is to work with the Malagasy government to ensure that some sort of protection is given to at least some if not all of the remaining forest patches in this area, 'because the problem is, even if they're not hunted they can very easily disappear if their habitat disappears. these are distinctly arboreal, tree dwelling creatures, and if habitat destruction continues they're going to disappear in a few decades if that even if people aren't hunting them. as always habitat destruction is the principle problem for species like primates and other forest dwelling animals, and hunting pressure. although, if you have hunting pressure in combination with habitat destruction, or intense hunting pressure, you can have certain species wiped out of areas even if habitat remains. but in general habitat destruction is your principle concern. but i think that--you've seen it--these are relatively accessible. we walked about forty, forty-five minutes to get here from a comforatable little village where it's very easy to stay overnight and where you get good food, and i think it would be quite easy to include this in the ecotourism circuit. think it's even easier than other places you ahve to go to see lemurs. and there are other species, we haven't seen them yet, that are quit attractive and fairly difficult to see elsewhere in madagascar. so this really is the flagship, one of the two or three or four most interesting and appealing of all your malagasy primates. so i think in the next few years it should become a must on the lemur watching circuit. FRED: In terms of what danger there is, if you look around us, all this used to be forest three years ago... in terms of the danger these animals are in, if you look around us there are a lot of trees down. this was all forest just a couple of years ago when we were working here. people were moving up this river looking for gold and basically they cut down a lot of roots and turned over trees so they could dig deeper and look for gold. these animals probably wouldn't be down here if there wasn't so much pressure on this forest, because the population, there's a competition for territory, and they can't all satisfy their food needs within the same space of forest, so these are pushed down. "this is probably destined to become a rice field next year after that. already there are a lot of trees cleared... (ALES) SO THIS BAND OF LEMURS
possibly. either gone or back up into the forest. and that's going to cause conflict bewteen the groups. more pressure on their food resources. perhaps not the entire family is going to die off, but they're not going to be able to feed themsleves.so there will be loss in the population as soon as next year. RUSS i now what would be intresting with this particular group, there is an existing captive breeding effort at the duke university primate center. and a few of these individuals are in captivity already. and if this is likely to be destroyed for a rice paddie or somethign else, it would be worthwhile to capture these animals from this particular piec eof doomed habitat rather that risk losing them and include them in the captive breeding population. the only positive thing about having them in this particular forest patch indicates to me that they're not really getting persecuted. because if people were eating them this would be the first group to go, because they're just sitting here, they're not stressed out by our presence at all. in fact, they look like they're falling asleep Cal laughs)which doesn't suggest many photographic opportunities over the next rfew hours. fall asleep...you watch.. try not to fall asleep...sometimes boring. (RUSS, TO FRED: 1760 FRED, WHAT ABOUT THIS VILLAGE WHERE THEIR COMING IN AND GETTING FED BY THE LOCAL PEOPLE. I'M NOT GETTNG A CLEAR SIGN FROM THESE GUYS ABOUT WHERE IT ACUTALLY IS. It's right over there. IT IS? close. about a kilomter and a half from here. OH , SO WE CAN ACTUALLY GET THERE FROM HERE. i imagine the same thing happened here. they found gold here, somebody hit it over there and they moved over there. same situation. people come into the forest everyday, the lemurs are fairly habituated because they're not directly meanced, threatened by the local population by hunting, and the local population started feeding them bananas in the village. ALEX-DO PEOPLE KEEP THEM AS PETS? (russ): no. they're very hard to keep in captivity. 1950 (fred) i'm very surprised to see them in the gallery forest. i've never seen them here before. (russ) yeah. this is very...precarious habitat. i was surprised. i was expecting to have to walk over that hilland then bill gave us a very convenient sound stop, and there they were. (fred) i think we should go into the forest a little bit. (RUSS think so? yeah.

index 7 2220 rain falling. nice. a little mic handling. Little frogs. rain gets heavier.

index 8 0 quieter rain. little mic noise again. lev kps shifting. some nice little bit sbu probably not enough to use.
2536 a little thunder. More nice rain. Some frogs. Some other bugs.

index 9 rain on plastic, not enough.

index 10 3005 walking thru the rain to the village. not bad journey sound, with rain and footsteps and a little bit too much wind, perhaps. but it clears up later. it's doable. some of it with voices in background as we talk and walk.

3322--(fred, off mic but... ) golddigging site. see how the trees and rocks are overturned. (this with water splashing and rocks and things-fairly good texture as we wade thru stream)
(alex)3409 SO THIS IS JUST A PLACE WE'VE COME TO ALONG THE TRAIL WHERE THIS STREAM IS RUNNING THRU AND YOU SAY THERE'S BEEN MINING HERE, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DIGGING. HOW CAN YOU TELL? (fred)Well, trees are upturned, they cut the roots to be able to dig under the soil, a lot of overturned rocks, a lot of fresh quartz on the surface, we don't see this anywhere else anlong the stream. normally its got sand riverbanks... and if you look around the forest, it's not dense at all. so there's been a lot of cutting so that they can dig. (then we find a little frog. 3500 russ gets excited, we talk about it, he wants to collect it, but it gets away.) (he describes it if you're interested. i'm not.) 3801 the babbling brook, murmuring stream, tinkling water whatever.only :30.

index 11 nothing but rain
index 15 you guessed it. more rain. and no, there wasn't anything in between 11 and 15 worth speaking of.

index 16 (we meet the miners) fred says they say they just came in this morning. 5111 they speak... fred asks them a question,says they're locals. this place, pretty much the whole town that we're gong to go to, everybody worked up his river before, and now they've moved to another place, because
as you can see they've completely destroyed it, pretty much run out of SUbstantial qualities of gold. NEED PERMIT TO DIG HERE? no, it's not controlled at all. fred asks about lemurs. they say there's lots. (we're getting nowhere in a hurry).

index 18 (ALEX) ARE YOU FINDING ANY GOLD HERE? 5912 they see some, but it's just gold powder. it isn't a lot. HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR GOLD AROUND HERE? here there's not a whole lot of poeople. they came here a lot before, as you can see from all the destruction all around us. but they've pretty much moved off to the town over the hill, and there's probably two to three thousand people looking for gold in the area. these guys are pretty much following the path and seeing what they can get out of what's remaining. YOU LIVE HERE ALL YOUR LIFE, YEAH? yes, they come from the town right of the main road. WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER PEOPLE? they've got a decent number from the local towns around here, but there are people from as far as ---and cee-ar-bay, on the high plateau near Tana. THAT'S 400 MILES. Yeah. so it's apretty hot spot. IS THIS THE PLACE TO COME? hard to say. but seeing how people came from allover the island, it's probably a pretty good spot.DARAINA FAMOUS FOR GOLD NOW? yeah, it's extremely popular. there are stories going around, and the case is that people have found up to a kilo of gold here, so just instant richness, so that's why you find poeple from anseearbay, chenga. ZWHAT ABOUT THE FOREST? 10235 it's...the forest is pretty much destroyed. this is their native forest and its destroyed from people coming in and looking for gold, cutting down trees and turning them over, digging holes like we see, creating open faces in earth in order to dig in further for gold. and they're concerned about it, but there's nothing they can do about it. there's no control. these forests aren't classified, they have no control over the pepole who are coming in, so they're just trying to make the most of it here given that everything is going to be pretty much sacrificed by everyone coming in from outside. IS THIS YOUR DAUGHTER? granddaughter. SHE HAS BEAUTIFUL GOLDEN EARRINGS AND A NECKLACE. He's going to give you his granddaughter to take back to the states if you're intrested. NO, I'VE GOT QA GIRLFRIEND BACK HOME. BUT I WAS JUST ADMIRING YOUR GRANDDAUGHTERS GOLD. some of it is from the gold that they found that threy had made into earrings, and the necklace we bought after selling gold. OK, THANK YOU. GOOD LUCK WITH FINDING GOLD. WHEN I COME BACK TO DAHAINA A YEAR FROM NOW, YOU'LL BE A WEALTHY MAN. (EVERYONE LAUGHS)

track 19 10600 wide village with village sounds in rain It's not working. the raindrops are hitting the mic way too loud. 10630 a little better...but overall, not a great piece of ambience. not enough going on in village except a little laughter and a crying baby.

index 20 name of the village is ahn-dramn-see-maht-'where the water doesn't die' 10830ish

index 22 11400 this is great heavy rainfall the best i've heard so far in daraina. rich. hard. shovel in middle.

11530 WHAT'S HE(THE LEMUR WE'RE LOOKING AT IN TREES) DOING RUSS? right now it looks like he just woke up, and now he's licking himself. he just looked at us ...when that miner dropped his digging spike. and now he's put his head back into his shoulder and he's gonna go back to sleep. he looks quite wet, which isn't surprising since he's sitting out in the open. whoops, now he shook himself. he looks like a little polar bear in that position. same color fur. there he is, looking right aat yeah. YUP. HE'S BIG. yeah, he's big. but most of that is fluff. he's about ten pounds. he really is nicely out in the open. think i'll take a picture. blah blah click click...this is called a marginal voucher shot. click. of course, it come~ at the end of a roll. he's definitely showing signs of life. HE'S MOVING. oh, he's moving! no! don't go!.there he goes, there's your vertical movement and leaping. better place. change this roll...
(RUSS WAS VERY EXCITED UP HERE) HE'S MOVING.~.OH YES, SNAP ...ALEX GOES HO! aren't they great jumpers? 118 for beginning of above. 12000 i think he's nibbling on something, but i really can't tell. yeah, he's eating leaf buds. young leaves. looking at us. look at those ears, the way they stick out. there's two up top to the left that are still sleeping this one is in a very nice position.now he's looking at us, trying to figure out what we're doing here. probably more attention than they usaullyy get from the local people. (talks about bringing tourists in during dry season when onoy about 15% of trees have leaves) 12420 the other two are just completely crashed out there. look at them. rolled up into little white balls. just two more, eh? see any others fred? no. 12510 bill gathers some ambience. it's raining. again. it's not bad ambience, a little too much mic noise.

index 25 13228 man panning for gold... the water moves fast, the man mumbles as he pans... 13300 sounds much better...you can here it much better.than he mumbles,then some more. 13507 even better, except i can't remember what he's doing. but it's shaking or scraping or something... oops ...bill stops tape. oh well.

index 26 13559 ambience at village; music, chickens, voices, pretty full. i like it. don't know what to do with it, but i like it.

14000 ambience changes; music goes, milling villagers and chicks peeping stays.

index 27 14200 chicks peeping louder and pigs and much laughter on part of villagers

index 28 14300 inside the little hut; music, hut talk...

index 29 14750 perspective from outside.
(we go back out in the woods, russ finds another tatersalli, closer, but it's off mic and not very interesting. it'll get better when we get the ones that are in the village itself, which i believe come on the next tape. oops ..wait...here's russ)

15531 they're totally unafraid. it's amazing. right next to a village with all this noise. look at them. obviously never hunted. c'mon down, guy. (starts making kissing noises to call them) ...background sound, the guides, more noises, camera snapping...forgot my damn poncho. HERE HE GOES, RUSS. oh, he's eating leaves now. more guides talking in Malagasy, more sucking noises. Russ) see that locomotion? isn't that incredible the way they bounce from tree to tree? more miloing, and then
END OF TAPE

DAT #7 -Daraina Day Walk: Looking for Lemurs

1:15 Ambience in gallery forest -lots of shuffling feet, wind, stream. (N/G)

2:03 Ambience in forest (1st Lemur.sighting) stream, wind in trees. ** Starts to rain -some footsteps. (4:34)

5:11 Q & A -Alex & Russ ****

6:20 repostion mic

8:41 Russ: " ...Spaceship Madagascar"

12:44 reposition mic, again

15:03 Fred joins conversation

15:17 Fred starts again (18:29) ****

19:30 Fred & Russ talk **

21:38 Rain ambience in gallery forest.

22:16 Rain ambience Tk #2. some footsteps good light rain -heavy wind in trees. Good stuff. ****

25:22 Thunder roll (27:35) **

NOTE: Maybe use this as the continuous stereofield and sum the subsequent rain scenes to mono & place in center of rain field.

29:20 Raining hard -lots of bumping into tree limbs -Rain on Russi poncho Walking in a field in the rain. Walking into stream -Fred points out gold digging ***

29:48 Walking in a field in the rain

33:08 walking into stream - Fred points out gold digging ***

34:03 Alex asks Fred about gold mining ***

34:45 Russ finds millipeads & frogs.

34:54 Russ finds a Mantella frog & gets excited. **

36:37 Russ explains Mantellas (37:05) **

37:46 Ambience near stream -heavy rain hitting mic. Probably not useful

38:57 Walking -distant voices -heavy water drops on mic. Probably not useful.

40:50 A distant Fred & Russ discuss which way to go -walk toward & pass by mic i then ambience. (Good transition) I then... **

41:42 thunder (42:38)

43:09 Russ puts frogs into Alexis water bottle (44:34)

45:29 Rain ambience (mic shelterd under a fallen tree limb) Maybe best of the day. **
(47:04)

NOTE: Might have to use this rain track as the basic stereo forest ambience with other material summed to MONO & placed into the center of this track.

48:25 Walking in the rain through the woods

49:00 Gold miners

49:55 Cross the stream -lots of mic noise

50:30 Fred talking to miners (lots of rain on mic noise)

56:20 Russ pulls out his polaroid camera

58:56 Alex interviews miners with Fred ** (1:05:05:00)

1:05:26 Village -wideshot ambience (no cover)

1:08:15 Pronunciation of mining village name **

1:09:46 Lemurs in trees -outside village: curled up in the top of trees. ** (not very interesting tape) (1:13:10:00) Alex & Russ mumbling.

1:13:28 Rain ambience at above location. **

1:14:36 (clang of metal -digging pole of miners) Russ & Alex talk about this lemurs activity -play by play **

1:16:19 Russ takes out camera

1:17:11 Camera shutter noise

1:17:40 lemur moves to another tree (Russ is excited) **

1:18:06 Alex -play-by-play **

1:18:35 CU of camera click **

1:20:08 CU more camera clicks **

1:22:30 Russ asks Fred about the dry season in this forest (good info) ***

1:23:19 Russ describes what they look like: Cat like **

1:24:23 Ambience -same location, with camera clicks (1:26:39:00)

1:26:49 Walking through forest -lots of rain lots of bumps (1:27:26:00)

1:27:39 Walking back into the village (kids voices, chickens, adult voices) 3rd Lemur sighting

1:31:25 Stream -miners panning for gold in stream

1:32:07 miners -CU (1:35:10:00) ***

1:35:26 Exterior -Village ambience (recorded under shelter) ** music playing, chickens, people.

1:37:35 Someone turns down the music -more voices (1:39:38:00) ***

1:39:38 Walking through village: Voices laughing/rain/chickens -arrive at restaurant/store (1:41:55:00) **

1:42:00 Chickens -CU....voices of people having a good time -lots of laughing (1:42:40:00)

1:42:44 Interior -lunch ambience/music playing

1:44:10 CU of lunch area -Paul & Fred talking music -people eating (1:45:56:22) **

1:46:00 Wide shot (1:47:26:00) **

1:47:37 Exterior wide shot to go with above. (1:48:38:00)

1:48:40 Exterior -walking through the forest sound of distant chopping & kids talking. Michael finds Lemur.

1:52:05 Walking through brush -kids near by -lots of rain bumps.

1:53:01 Russ sees lemur -" ...unbelievable ... "

1:54:10 Alex in distance asks "How close are they?1I Russ on mic says they are totally unfraid **

1:56:50 "..... Here he comes, he's coming down."

2:00:00 Good kids talking & laughing -try to coax lemur out of the tree ** (2:02:00:00)

END OF TAPE #7

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