ML 137946

AudioDateDownLeftRightUpCloseReportGallerySettingsGiftLanguageGridListMapMenuPhotoPlayPlusSearchStarUserVideo

Interview 1:40 - 1:52:51 Play 1:40 - More
Audio »
More
Video »
Browse
species »
Jeff Fee, Bud Moore, Norm Steadman  

Age/Sex
Identification
Solicitation
Behavior
Note

 

 

 

 

Lewis and Clark  

Equus caballus caballus 4:17 - 4:19 Play 4:17 - More
Audio »
More
Video »
Browse
species »
Snort  

Age/Sex
Identification
Solicitation
Behavior
Note

 

 

 

 

Lewis and Clark  

Sound Effects 14:00 - 14:44 Play 14:00 - More
Audio »
More
Video »
Browse
species »
Two-way radio  

Age/Sex
Identification
Solicitation
Behavior
Note

 

 

 

 

Lewis and Clark  

Sound Effects 21:54 - 26:50 Play 21:54 - More
Audio »
More
Video »
Browse
species »
Axe chopping  

Age/Sex
Identification
Solicitation
Behavior
Note

 

 

 

 

Lewis and Clark  

Sound Effects 55:24 - 57:00 Play 55:24 - More
Audio »
More
Video »
Browse
species »
Walking  

Age/Sex
Identification
Solicitation
Behavior
Note

 

 

 

 

Lewis and Clark  

Environmental Recording 1:00:08 - 1:01:36 Play 1:00:08 - More
Audio »
More
Video »
Browse
species »
Spring water ambi  

Age/Sex
Identification
Solicitation
Behavior
Note

 

 

 

 

Lewis and Clark  

Environmental Recording 1:03:59 - 1:04:16 Play 1:03:59 - More
Audio »
More
Video »
Browse
species »
Bubbling spring ambi  

Age/Sex
Identification
Solicitation
Behavior
Note

 

 

 

 

Lewis and Clark  

Environmental Recording 1:15:53 - 1:17:45 Play 1:15:53 - More
Audio »
More
Video »
Browse
species »
Spring water ambi  

Age/Sex
Identification
Solicitation
Behavior
Note

 

 

 

 

Lewis and Clark  

Environmental Recording 1:42:55 - 1:48:07 Play 1:42:55 - More
Audio »
More
Video »
Browse
species »
Idaho ambi  

Age/Sex
Identification
Solicitation
Behavior
Note

 

 

 

 

Lewis and Clark  

Mule -- Equus caballus x asinus 1:48:40 - 1:49:48 Play 1:48:40 - More
Audio »
More
Video »
Browse
species »
Whinny  

Age/Sex
Identification
Solicitation
Behavior
Note

 

 

 

 

Lewis and Clark  

NPR/NGS Radio Expeditions
25 Jul 2001

    Geography
  • United States
    Idaho
    Idaho County
    Locality
  • Lewis and Clark Trail; near Wendover Ridge
    Latitude/Longitude
  • 46.53972   -114.81722
    Habitats
  • Coniferous Forest
  • Stream
    Channels
  • Stereo
    Sampling Rate
  • 48kHz
    Bit Depth
  • 16-bit
    Recorders
    Microphones
    Accessories
    Equipment Note
  • Stereo=1; Spaced Omnis; Decoded MS stereo

NPR/NGS RADIO EXPEDITIONS
Show: Lolo Trail
Log of DAT #: 4
Engineer: McQuay
Date: July 25, 2001

0:00 general ambi -chat in background, sounds of walking

1:37 Bill So Alex, what are we doing now?

1 :39-2: 16 Alex Well, we, uh we're coming down. We kind of lost the trail. It's not that easy to follow the trail up here. There are several trails and there old and they kind of peter out in several places. So right now we've come up on a high knob and we're trying to re-find the trail. We've worked our way down from the knob. We had to get off and walk on part of it cause there's a very steep branch of this hillside here. Bud's up ahead here, I'm gonna talk to him for a second.

2:30 Alex Just tell me, do you think the trail was like this back in l805?

2:31-3:24 Bud, his accent may help set the scene but much of what he says is
indecipherable
Not right here. This was bulldozers. This was all logged, logged probably in the 50's
early 60's. What's happened is the loggers logged right over the top here and that's why
we can't follow the trail. Part of the time it's the old trail and part of the time it's the
loggers. And apparently it dropped off over the ridge right up there and conjured around
and I would be surprised if the old trail did also, but it's obliterated and you can't see
where it goes. That's why we're having this trouble. Once we get back on top again
before we go very far we'll scout for where do we go __brush.

3:24-13:54 general ambi -sounds of movement, some chat

4: 16 -sound of a horse or donkey

4:35 Alex So we're trying to move the horses out of the way so they can get down to the bank, but there are about ten of us, maybe a dozen in this party and we're all jammed up here.

11 :02 Bill Okay Sundance, head out.

13:54 Recording is stopped. Starts again.

14:01¬sounds of a walkie-talkie or CB in background; sounds of movement

19:00 Recording is stopped. Starts again.

19:00¬some indistinguishable chat in the background; sound of movement

20:27 Do you think the trail was like this back in

20:29-20:58 Bud, his accent may help set the scene but much of what he says is indecipherable Yeah, well I don't know about the Indian Trail. From here on up to the old lookout it pretty well contours around the peaks and I'm not sure whether old Indian trail went right down the ridge. It probably did. It probably would've been up above us going up and down I the saddles. I think this is probably built by the forest service to have a better grade for the pack out and get supplies up to the old lookout.

21:11-21:37 Bud It's kind of interesting, the Indians didn't have tools I guess to cut something out of a trail like this. That's why they stayed up on top of the ridges, so they can go around. It's pretty hard to go around here, it's so steep. It's pretty hard to get around a trail like this. But they didn't have the tools to either build the trail or cut the logs out, the windfalls out, as the years went by.

21:40 Hey give me that ax. Let me swing one.

21 :52-26:28 ambi -sound of ax chopping

23:32,24:07,26:28 sound of wood cracking

26:28-35:03 general ambi -sounds of movement; 30:43 sound of horse sneezing

35:03 Recording is stopped, starts again.

35:03-36:53 lots of chat going on at once

36:53 Alex Just tell us where we are now.

36:55 Bud, his accent may help set the scene but much of what he says is indecipherable Well, __ this is it, isn't it. It looks different to me but the old lookout would be

37:07 uv - Yeah, that's your lookout up there about a quarter of a mile.

37:10-38:01 Bud
This is where there was a not understandable the first time I was
ever here. It sat right here in the sap. It was long unused, but it had been used in the
1920's by several trappers. Scoopin(sp?) Bill Woodman and Elmer Pees and Burt
Landover. And Scoopin Bill, when they went up to Papoose Creek to Papoose Saddle
and then up above Papoose Creek they had a cabin. And then they come around to here,
come around the top and come back down. They didn't have a very big line but it was a
pretty good line. They got 40 or so marked. So this was one of their cat camps right here.

38:02 We find a lot of their martin sets in the trees

38:05 Bud From here up

38:07 Well I even found some below to.

38:10 What is a martin set?

38:12 I was gonna have him explain this. That be good if you would.
38:16 Bud Well there's two typical kinds of sets they made for the pine martins. One was a peg set where you made a little house on the side of the tree up about 4 ft. about eyelevel the roof would be, just by driving pegs in, two pegs and a roof, the another peg on top of those too to hold the roof tight. Then you put sheer pegs down, about three, and then you nail your bait in there tight under that roof. And then down here about 14 inches below the bait you
AR put your trap. You put 2 pegs to hold your trap. And then you staple your trap to the tree. And then the martin, after you'd staple you trap to the tree, Why he'd climb up there and it was kinda natural for him to step right into the trap. Or if he didn't he tried to go up, if you're bait was nailed good he'd be foolin' around and pretty soon he'd step in it. That's one set.

39:26-42:08 Bud
The other kind is a notch in a tree. Those endure a lot longer than peg sets. We always
chose, if we could find them, a dead tree cause then the resin wouldn't seep out and get
your pelts all pitchy. Say you're the bowl, and then we chop a notch right here at this
angel and then straight and then about that long and then we'd cut some cleats out here
and then make like shakes or shingles and put that bait back in the notch. (Continues
describing how to set-up a notch in a tree and the difference between a peg set and a
notch in a tree set).

42:18 Alex So Jeff are we gonna walk down to the spring here?

42: 20 Jeff yeah, we will. It's gonna go down about a quarter of a mile here.

42:40 Jeff - If you want to water your horses there's a place to water your horses there, but it's up to you guys.

42:53-45:39 sounds of movement and chat about lunch. Some technical difficulties and fuzz from the microphone in this part.

45:39 Recording stops starts again

45:39-47:48 Chat about eating lunch and who is going where.

48:08-49:44 does not talk in a very linear pattern Apparently this is the spring that Louis and Clark used as they left down on the river where we left his morning. They left those ridges and they came up over top and down, not around the sides like we did. And a lot of those switchbacks depended on where the windfalls were at. And I'm sure that they probably lost those two horses and ruined the desk down on the very steep portion where it was gravely and rocky. They recorded that in the journals: It was gravely and rocky and it was a rainy day. I'm sure they lost those horses within the first mile of the river down there. They came up here, apparently Lewis stayed back cause they found this spring up here, stopped and rested, and I believe Clark waited over an hour for the rest of the party to catch-up and when they found this spring, which there was probably a trail to it -I'm sure the Indians used this spring. It was probably the only water from the top on down that was reasonably close to the ridge top. They drank some portable soup here at midday at sometime or whenever they met up again. And I think it's amazing that we have found the spring that we're pretty certain that Lewis and Clark used. As we heard about the remnants of the old miners cabin, that's probably the reason the miner's cabin was here was to get water. Bud Moore says that was the water source when he was on the Wendover lookout, about a quarter of a mile, and he came over here to carry water in the mid 30's.
49:44-50:12 [Norm Steadman] I think it's amazing that we have found the spring and are reasonably sure that it was the only source near the ridge. Certainly you could get down off of this ridge in places and find water, like along the Lolo Motorway, which goes from here on into Weyight. [sp] Most of those hunters camps were near water and I've seen people go by there and almost die of thirst not realizing usually that people camped usually where there was water.

50:27-51:56 [JF] new speaker, does not talk in a very linear fashion -[Bud Moore ?] Just to kind of emphasize what Norm was saying is I've been from one end of the ridge to the other, and I've found water but I've had to bail almost a mile off before I hit it. The reason that we've got water up here this close and this high to the trail is because we have the main Wendover Ridge coming in here with to other ridges connecting to coming right into this main ridge. And where all three of these ridges connect, geologically, for some reason, it creates a way for water to percolate up through and a spring, an artesian spring to come out. That's why we've got water this high. And this four miles up from the
bottom, exactly, well awful close. Just like Lewis and Clark had mentioned it's about four miles up. They didn't mention anything about bailing way way down. Nobody would do that. It would take way to far. Energy and time were survival. Energy and time. You had to keep moving. You needed those water sources as close to the ridge top as you could so you didn't have to bail down, or it could mean death. It just to much energy, too much work.

51:57 Alex So, you knew that there had to be a spring up here somewhere. And how did you find the location of this place?

52:05-53:14
Jeff Fee:
Well I searched form the bottom all the way up. Even though I knew it was four miles up I started searching back about three miles. And realized that going off both sides there is just no way they are going to find a water source close to this ridge. I got up here about four miles and walked on around here to where these ridges cam together and just walked right into it. I started finding the trail that we're on right now. The trail tread, old trail tread. It got obliterated to some extent as I'll show you later by this old logging road up here. And then I followed the old trail tread that Bud Moore himself probably went down with some kind of water container and filled it up and put it on his back and packed right back up there. And it's the same spring I'm pretty certain, that Lewis and Clark also used. Where they had there portable soup, where they rested for two hours and where they let their horses feed over on a grassy slope that I think is the same grassy slope that their horses fed and they had their portable soup on.

53:14 Alex How far ahead is it to that place?

53:16 JF Oh, we're probably looking at a quarter of a mile.

53:20 Alex Alright, go ahead.

53:23 sounds of movement

54:03 JF - This is where the log in road obliterates the old trail

54:25-55:23 Jeff Fee: This is the old trial that Lewis and Clark and Bud Moore went over and everybody else, but it got obliterated by the logging road here in the sixties. I'm just certain that nobody
realized what they were doing when they put the road in here or they would've never done it. They didn't have the cultural resources protection laws to the extent that we have now. It just a mishap, but it happened and we did it, a lot of us, the early Forest Service during those times. But this trail goes right on across the road and I picked up faint pieces of it on the other side of that road. An island stripped of trees that goes all the way through there -Now, we're not gonna go through that cause it's a sun of a gun. But we'll walk on around this road and I'll take you up to the spring and you can se pretty good trail tread evidence of it once we get up in there.

55:23 sounds of walking

57:22 Alex Jeff what's this are here?

57:24 Jeff This is it.

57:25 Alex This is it?

57:27 Jeff This is. You can see this ridge here. There's another ridge that hooks in on the back of this ridge, and these two hook right in at this point just several hundred yards to this main Wendover Ridge. This is the only place on this whole system, this whole Wendover system where they actually connect.

57:55 Alex Bud, is this it? Is this your spring?

57:58 Bud Yeah, this is the place. There's somewhere in here, I don't know if this is the exact spot where we dipped or not.

58:05-58:48 No, you're gonna see the exact spot where you dipped. It's well preserved. We're under it a little bit. He'll recognize it I'm certain. But what I wanted to show you a little bit, is this is where these ridges connect and this is where the waters coming out and this is along the whole ridge system the closest point of water to the top of the ridge. So that's why I'm sure early native groups used it, the trappers used it, the Forest Service used it, Bud Moore used it, and I'm pretty sure Lewis and Clark used it too.

58:55 Alex Is it trickling up there like it is down here?

58:58 I think so. I can't quite remember. I was up here in the fall. We can go up there but we can come back to if we need to get a sound of it.

59:06 talk about recording sound

59:17-59:57 This spot is a haven for animals, elk and deer. In fact the elk come in here and wallow to get rid of the bugs. They'll just lay down in that -that's why it's so muddy -and they'll just roll. I've been in here and I've come up on elk, I didn't actually see them rolling but they were just muddy when they ran off. And they shook and when they shook it just threw mud clear up on those branches. So it was probably an old hunting sight of a lot of the tribes and as well as the mountain men. I'm pretty certain of that too.

1 :00:07-1 :01 :40 ambi -spring water

1:02:14 Recording is stopped. Starts again.

1:02:14 sound of movement, chat. In a bog.

1:03:59 ambi -spring water, some chat also.

1:04:18 Now Bud I would bet you that this where you put you canteen or your bucket and dipped out your water.

1:04:28 Bud Yeah it probably is. It feels kind of familiar. Cause we used to come in from that way

1 :05 :09 Alex But things get lost. People forget about them. They're not written down anywhere so it falls away and Bud hasn't been back up here and maybe he doesn't realize this is what you're looking for.

1:05:22-1:05:33 But it's not lost. It's still written, it just isn't written in books. It's written in this earth, in this land, on the trees. And I'll show you. Come on up here.

1:05:40-1:06:17 Bud talks about using Alder patches as a guide to find water.
Alder

1 :06:31 Jeff One of the first things you look for is people had to cut out trails to get to them, especially Forest Service. Again I'm saying the Forest Service followed the old historic drills. So you start looking around and by golly, Bud'll recognize this. What do see Bud.

1:06:55 Bud Oh, an old cut-of flog

1 :06:57 Jeff: An old cut-of flog there and here is it back over there. And the limbs have been sawed off right there. And look at this, as markers. They cut these limbs so they could get down through here. The limbs stick out and you can't get your horses down to so they were cutting these limbs off. How many years ago this could've been cut off at the turn of the century, but here's evidence. And then probably some of the best evidence, that Bud would probably know more than anybody, is this old scar on this tree. It's a blaze and _ Forest Service. Early Forest Service blaze and it's got he boot and the heel. So anybody that comin up, even if you've got two feet of snow, you can say okay I know where the trial is even though it's covered with snow because of these blazes the forest service and the early mountain men put on the trees. Indian put blazes on the trees. Now I've showed you that yesterday. Not only do they strip the bark to eat it but they also blaze the trees so they can see it when they're traveling.

1 :08:28 Alex

This blaze that you're talking about, now it's just a dark section on the trunk, it's probably about 15 inches or so maybe a foot and half, and it does look like a foot print, the foot lower than the heel, so it's kind of an upside down footprint on the trunk of this lodge pole pine, which is a pretty good sized tree. It's a spruce not a lodgepole.

1:09:03 All of these are spruce. When Bud was talking about how he know where you can get water, you look for spruce clumps and these alder patches. You're gonna find water in there.

1:09:16 Alex How do you make a blaze like that?

1:09:20-1:10:20 Well you come up with an ax, you strike this tree -they struck it here -strip the bark down to there, popped it off. And above here just one little whack to make the heel part of it and pop that out. One thing I wanted to tell you about these blaze -and believe you me I've seen a lot of them. They've gotten me through the night on horseback when it's pitch dark and you're not quite sure where you're going -because what happens is the resin comes out when you make those blazes and the resin will be bright bright yellow. I'm sure he knows what I'm talking about and I'm sure Norm knows what I'm talking about too. Same way with those Indian blazes. You know they get them sometimes up to six feet. You can see those darn things hundreds of yards off. I don't care how dark it is, you can see those blazes. It's almost like they're fluorescent. They just stick right out, so you know you're on the trial.

1:10:20 Alex Without a light? You just see them shining in moonlight.

1:10:25-1:11:26 Not even in moonlight. I promise you, dark. They bring in enough light from the sky, even if it's pitch-dark, that you can see them. Now if it's raining you got a little different story; it's not quite as easy. But if you got a good clear night, a starry night, it'll pick up just enough light, and that's how people worked their way through the mountains at night. And there was a lot of night traveling. Especially in the early days because you could traveler and you didn't have to worry about enemies if you went at night. That went for the mountain men and the early settlers and everybody that kind of owling around in this woods with guns and knives and you didn't know who was around the next corner. So a lot of people would prefer to travel at night cause most other people wouldn't. That's what these things do. They're another part of the survival. This stuff is written in the trees. There's still a recording. It's not in writing but it's still here.

1:11:26 Alex
If you can see it

1:11:27-1:12:11 You can see it. And then, you find the old trail tread and it just keeps right on going. The further that way the more it diminishes to where I actually had to come here to start finding the trail tread across the road that were talking about. Again, another branch here, you can see where the cut it off with an ax here.

1:12:15-1:13:24 ambi -a little bit of water in back ground, very quiet

1:13:45-1:15:03 This point, this spring right here, this is the closest point to where Lewis and Clark reconstituted their portable soup. It's also the spring they watered their horses. Probably the spring they drank out of themselves coming up the four miles out of the bottom. It's the closest spring to a side hill over here where they speak of the horses feeding for two hours while they were waiting for everybody and they ere eating they're portable soup. On this face over here there's an opening just a few hundred yards around the hill. I suspect that's also where they would have stated their fire to heat their portable soup and be close to their horses, cause they're not gonna stay here and handle their horses over
there because they're military and their survival is not only to have their guns but to have their horses nearby. So they probably just got their water here and hauled it on around there, the open hillside, and let their horses feed. There's a couple of flat spots where they really would've likely rested and had their campfire.

1:15:55 ambi -spring at "the other hidden Lewis and Clark spring"

1:18:29 -spaced ominis - 3 interviews

1:18:31 Alex Stephen Ambrose said that these days, the 15 and the 16 was the most difficult part of the journey that they had encountered so far. Do you think that's true?

1:18:46-1:19:55 Norm - I would believe that that is true, yes. They encountered some others afterwards that were just as difficult, but I think that would be a true statement. This is the toughest day they encountered because the steep hill here, it was raining when they came up. They were
hungry; That's the first time they tried the portable soup. After they left this and went up to what later got called the snow bank camp along the existing motorway Of course they could not find any way. They had to melt snow and took the remnants of the colt they had killed up at the power ranger station camp and some more portable soup and then about three hours before daylight it started snowing. Depending on which journal you read it snowed between 6 and ten inches and the visibility was down to a couple of hundred feet. So Clark went ahead with another person and built fires. I'd say that your statement, Stephen Ambrose's statement was probably true. These were two of the toughest days they had.

1:20:01 Alex - What was it like for them when they traveled? ...

1:20:19
Norm - They had blankets that they carried with them and they still had remnants of those blankets when they came back to __ in 1806. So they did have probably army issue blankets. They had some of the old sails, I think they called them sails, pieces of old canvas, and they did in fact use them as sails as they come up the Missouri River. And they had some of those, I would just imagine to wrap up in. Most of the time they usually ... they'd form up into squads and they would have messes. So they didn't cook for the entire 32 or 35 people. There were 3 principle cooks and I would be remiss in trying to tell you those names of those.

1:21 :25 Alex There was a system of roads here, although nobody today would recognize them as roads, but they thought they were roads, and they were roads for the Indians. How much were they following Indian trail and being guided by Nez Perce and Shoshone and others who
were helping them.

1:22:00-1:23:27 Norm
They called them roads and there were many roads here traveled by Indians depending on what they wanted to do and when they wanted to do it, but they followed roads and of course on the 14th they took the wrong roads and that's why they ended up at the Powell ranger station in the river bottom. I don't believe they realize they were on the wrong road until the following year when they came back and they had Nez Perce guides. Here, they had Old Toby, an old Shoshone, and a young man with him that they called his son. They didn't write much about his son. I'm not sure how much Old Toby guided them once they got over the Lolo Pass. It's quite remarkable that an old Shoshone would even volunteer to come over in enemy
territory because the Nez Perce and the Shoshone were bitter enemies at that time. He led them almost to Idaho.... When they got back at the sinkhole camp ... Lewis and Clark split up the morning of the 18th and Clark went ahead and Old Toby, the guide, stayed behind. So Clark went into the Weippet Prairie without an
Indian guide, so they were following these roads. Very good possibility that there'd been some of the Nez Perce over to the prairies hunting buffalo and there could've been a lot of horse tracks once they got on top.

1:23:29-1:24:07
Ya know we were talking about night travel a little while ago, Old Toby is Shoshone. The Shoshone were enemies with the Nez Perce a lot of war going on. In the journals they said that Toby had come through there ten years earlier. I suspect he came through here during the night. So he wasn't able to see a lot of the landforms that way. So he was going back through something that he'd been through at night so he'd miss the enemy. I suspect. I don't that for truth.

1:24:07-1:25:12
But even had he came through here in the daytime, just think of what this brush changes in ten years. And depending upon the use of the trail, and like I say they were not on the main trail when they came up the trail that we came up this morning. They were in the main trail down around Lolo Pass ... So, they were not on the main trail of the Nez Perce but a way trail to get down to the fisheries. The fast route was back over the rocky point and on down across into the Packer Meadows. But once they got down that river they knew they had to get out of there because the trail just diminished on the river. And as Bud Moore stated, there was a ledge of rocks just below the Wendover creek, but that almost blocked downriver travel.

1:25:17-1:25:36 Simply a remarkable journey to think that they could even make it from Powell down river up to here and on up to snow bank camp. And it was dark when they got to snow bank camp. Look how long it's taken us today and we didn't have to

1:25:36 Well we didn't lose two horses that rolled down hill and then broke some of the equipment and break up the party. Plus we actually knew where we were going.

1:25:45 Yes, simply amazing that they could make that. And we don't know what condition this road was in. We do know that every year it changed because of wind throws and fires.

1 :26:03 Alex - You know, you're not a professionalist. You're an engineer.

1:26:08 Norm - I'm an engineering technician, yes

1:26: 11-1 :26:31 Alex
But you, for 15 years, got interested in this and started learning about it. I think a lot of people, there are a lot of people that are fascinated by the journey and the adventure and what they found. I just wonder what it is you think hooks people about that. Maybe it's more than one thing.

1:26:31-1:28:36 Norm
I really don't think it's any different than any other history, but I think that for those of us particularly that live in this country, they camped in your backyard like I'm from Weippe and they had two compass in Weippe and they had two camps there. Camped 11 days at Weippe. I think we would be a little remiss if we didn't encourage a little bit about Lewis and Clark, especially when we're getting near the 200 years. When I first started Lewis and Clark I never even thought about a bicentennial. But it simply is an amazing journey. And with all the records I think a lot of people are not doing justice to it if they don't get all of the journals of all of the journalists that wrote. Particularly Ordway's journals. He says things that the officers and others didn't. One thing we need to realize is that a lot of those journalists were copying each other. If Lewis was writing, Clark copied it, but he always added a little it of his own. Lewis wasn't writing any coming west. He stopped writing on the Sept 26th when he couldn't get a lot of horses from the Shoshone. Like he was aggravated, he quite writing. He wrote two days when they stopped at Traveler's Rest to take some observations. He did not write again until he and Clark separated at the sink hole camp. Then he wrote while they were separated till he got to Weippe again. And then he didn't write until I think some time in November he wrote a day or two. But he picked up his pen in January the 1st, 1806 and wrote an entry everyday until he and Clark got back together down after the little skirmish with the Blackfeet and he and Lewis had got shot. So he did write going back but it's a shame that we don't have some record from Lewis going west. He wrote a tremendous amount of stuff when he was with the Shoshone, but it's just like he got aggravated when he couldn't get all the horses he wanted from the Shoshone.

1 :28:44-: 1 :29:30 general ambi -interview site, some sound of moment, some ambi of the spring

1 :30:17 Bud Moore and I are gonna drink a little bit of water right were we think Lewis and Clark drank.

1:30:45-1:31:16 I think that's the neat thing about this Lewis and Clark. I'm kind of a renegade and I make up my own thoughts on this by studying the journals. If someone writes a novel I don't necessarily agree with them, and that's my prerogative, I feel. I like to go through and study all of the journals and compare them. Of course we know those guys copied from each other and they did not write on the same days, so you have to take that into account too.

1:31 :24 But yes this had to be a very very tough route and as we look back to all of those peaks over there in September they were covered with old snow.
1:31:44 Alex Bud, I saw you dip a bottle down and taste some of that water. How was it?

1:31:50 Bud Well it's great. It's cold. For just a little while I held my hand under it and it began to get numb. It's real cold water. It must come out from the earth just a little above us hear. Good water (laughing)

1 :32: 13-1 :32:33 Bud It's remarkable that we have it up this high to. If you see where it a bowled spring here and if you get up to where it starts we'd be higher than the saddle down there I'm pretty sure....

1 :32:35-1 :35 :41 ambi -spring with talking in the background, sound of the spring fades farther away in some parts

1:35:51-1:36:32 Reading from a journal September 15, Friday, 1805. "4 miles ascending a high steep rugged mountain winding in every direction. The timber has been burnt in every direction. Several horses rolled down, much hurt; a portable desk broken. From the top of those mountains, a snow mountain from southeast to southwest. We leave the river to our left hand Found a spring on the top of the mountain were we halted to dine and wait for the party. Rained. We camped on a high pinnacle of a mountain. Two of our horses gave out today and left. The road is bad as it can possibly be."

1:36:42 repeat of above

1:37:12-:1:37:29 Reading from Clark's journal "Four miles up the mountain I found a spring and halted for the rear to come put and let their horses rest and feed. About two hours the rear of the party came up much fatigue and the horses more so. Several horses slipped and rolled down steep hills which hurt them very much."

1:38:03 Reading from a journal, new speaker Sept 16, 1805. "We renewed our march early though the morning was very disagreeable and proceeded over the most terrible mountains I ever beheld." That's from the journals of Sergeant or Private Gas(sp?)

1:38:27 repeat of above

1:38:59 Discussion over whether Gus was a Sergeant or Private. Inconclusive

1:39:55-1:41:29
Sunday 15 the of Sept. 1805. Sgt. Ordway. Cloudy, we sat out as usual and proceeded on a short distance down the creek. Crossed several small creeks and swampy places covered with tall handsome white cedar and spruce pine. We crossed a creek upon, a little bit low, and then ascended a high mountain. Some places so steep and rocky that some of our horses fell backwards and rolled 20 or 30 ft among the rocks but did not kill them. We got on the ridge of the mountain and followed it. Came over several high knobs where the timber had been mostly blown down. We found a small spring before we came to the highest part of the mountain where we halted and drank a little portable soup before proceeding to the highest part of the mountain; found it to be about ten miles from the foot to the top of the mountain and most of it very steep. We traveled until after dark in hopes to find water. We could not find any. We found some spots of snow so we camped on the top of the mountain and melted some snow. The snow appears to lay all the year on this mountain. We drank a little portable soup and laid down without anything else to satisfy our hunger. Cloudy and cold, this mountain and all these mountains are covered thick with different kinds of pine timber. Some high rocks appear about the timber.

1:41 :25-1 :42:43 ambi -spring, interview site

1:42:47 Bill This is MS and we've got some Idaho ambi

1:42:54-1:45:07 ambi -nothing much going on here, some wind, very quite, Wind picks up at 1 :44:40.

1:45:07 We'll try this again holding it

1:45:23-1:48:07 ambi -same as above, very quite, some wind. 1:46:14 a bug buzzing around

1 :48:43-1 :49:50 ambi -mules whinnying, very good

1:51:51 It's an old trick to make the mule below Bill, but it didn't work

1 :52:04 -1:52:07 ambi -mule neighing, good

1:52:10 - 1:52:51 chat, not applicable to topic

Close Title